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Offline Mckenzie-  
#1 Posted : 07 September 2011 08:05:11(UTC)
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Being as its close to the 10th year anniversary of the tragic events of 9/11, their are documentary's about the events on all the time.

Ive started reading up on conspiracy theories mentioned, and some seem interesting if not possible. I am an avid follower of conspiracy theories as i do think most have a backbone and this is one of the most famous.

Their are claims, that the US knew prior to 9/11 occurring that it was going to happen, that planes we're going to be driven into the World Trace Centre yet allowed it too happen. The reasons we're apparently for, if they had stopped them from carrying out this attack, they may have made a new target, like Al-Qaeda have the past 20 years for their failed attempts.

In 1994 there we're 3 failed attempts at crashing planes into buildings where 1 crashed into the garden of the White House. In 1995, there was a plot made to blow up 11 airliners flying to America. In April 2001, a simulated war game by NORAD was going to be created where an aircraft had been hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon, the simulation was eventually dismissed for being to un-realistic. In July 2001, anti-aircraft missiles we're installed into G8 in Genoa, after reports that Bush and other world leaders where targets of terrorist attacks. Then to top it all off, in the early morning of September 11, NRO (US Reconnaissance Satellites) simulated a crash of an aircraft crashing into their building.

This was a big reason to why people question the situation. Where the US just looking for an excuse to invade Iraq? yet the thing which caught me most was a TV show on it, where it showed a general at the time of 9/11 has said that "unfortunately, we need another 9/11 to happen to motivate another attack".

Here is also intelligence readings and indication of an attack before it happened.

March 2001 - Italian intelligence warns of an al Qaeda plot in the United States involving a massive strike involving aircraft, based on their wiretap of al Qaeda cell in Milan.
July 2001 - Jordanian intelligence told US officials that al-Qaeda was planning an attack on American soil, and Egyptian intelligence warned the CIA that 20 al Qaeda Jihadists were in the United States, and that four of them were receiving flight training.
August 2001 - The Israeli Mossad gives the CIA a list of 19 terrorists living in the US and say that they appear to be planning to carry out an attack in the near future.
August 2001 - The United Kingdom is warned three times of an imminent al Qaeda attack in the United States, the third specifying multiple airplane hijackings. According to the Sunday Herald, the report is passed on to President Bush a short time later.
September 2001 - Egyptian intelligence warns American officials that al Qaeda is in the advanced stages of executing a significant operation against an American target, probably within the US.


So, what do you think, just coincidence? Or the US allowed the attack to prompt an invasion attack on Iraq?

Edited by moderator 12 September 2011 06:11:13(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline forkboy  
#2 Posted : 07 September 2011 08:08:34(UTC)
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They didn't "allow" it to happen, they just dropped the ball. It's hardly the first time the intelligence services of a country have done something fucking stupid.
Offline Mckenzie-  
#3 Posted : 07 September 2011 08:10:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: forkboy Go to Quoted Post
They didn't "allow" it to happen, they just dropped the ball. It's hardly the first time the intelligence services of a country have done something fucking stupid.


Well with all the warnings they received.. why/how did they not do something? Putting an officer on every plane wouldnt have been a hard thing and may have saved precious lives. Especially when they are getting reports an attack is imminent.
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Offline forkboy  
#4 Posted : 07 September 2011 08:26:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mckenzie- Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: forkboy Go to Quoted Post
They didn't "allow" it to happen, they just dropped the ball. It's hardly the first time the intelligence services of a country have done something fucking stupid.


Well with all the warnings they received.. why/how did they not do something? Putting an officer on every plane wouldnt have been a hard thing and may have saved precious lives. Especially when they are getting reports an attack is imminent.

How many flights are there per day inside the continental US? That shit would be expensive. Bush government should have done more than they did. Does not mean they let it happen, that's a massive leap.
Offline Mckenzie-  
#5 Posted : 07 September 2011 08:30:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: forkboy Go to Quoted Post
How many flights are there per day inside the continental US? That shit would be expensive. Bush government should have done more than they did. Does not mean they let it happen, that's a massive leap.


That's true. Im not saying i agree with it, not 100%. But it does seem weird. American toops where on standby for an attack overseas.
Did they let it happen? Im still undecided. There are both arguments for it yes and no.
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Offline Gildermershina  
#6 Posted : 07 September 2011 08:40:01(UTC)
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They could have prevented World War II, by (amongst other things) not having a World War I. But oops, they didn't.

I do think it was a number of massive fuckups on the part of American intelligence that allowed it to happen, but that's not the same thing as being responsible for a terrorist act. If only Harold Shipman's mother had had an abortion... Doesn't work like that.
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genocidal king on 07/09/2011(UTC), forkboy on 07/09/2011(UTC)
Offline asdf  
#7 Posted : 07 September 2011 08:41:28(UTC)
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It's like Titanic, they didnt purposely drive into an ice berg, but they also didnt take much caution after all of the warnings that there was ice out there. Sometimes you have to press on despite the warnings, and sometimes bad things happen when you do.
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Offline Rincewind  
#8 Posted : 07 September 2011 17:49:17(UTC)
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i think there is a lot of evidence to say yes..... it could have been prevented.
they could have shot those planes down a long time before they starting being driven into buildings. but they didn't.
im not sure but i think i remember reading swomewhere that this was a known threat back in Clintons day.
the FAA didn't ell NORAD or the other branches of the American civil deffence force about the attack until three of the four planes had allready hit... making it impossible for a reaction and prevention to take place.

then you have the very very strange collapse of the world trade centre... and the demolition of world trade centre building seven...
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline Gildermershina  
#9 Posted : 08 September 2011 08:25:03(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rincewind Go to Quoted Post
then you have the very very strange collapse of the world trade centre... and the demolition of world trade centre building seven...


As someone who studied architecture, I can tell you that the collapse of the WTC was not especially strange. The steel structure heated, expanded, bent, eventually buckling and the weight of the floors above that point caused the building to collapse at a certain point, which then caused the floor below to collapse, and so on and so on. Building 7 is unusual, but again, not as suspicious as people assume.

Steel expands and bends under sufficient heat, and because steel structures are held together by bolts and welds, those are the points of failure. If one supporting column's bolts shear, and there's not enough redundancy, the structure is going to fail.

As a side-note, conspiracy theorists like to point to things like the presence of chemicals used in detonation explosives, but those chemicals are probably present in paper filing trays and absurdly mundane objects like that - chemicals are in everything manufactured. And how the fuck do you fill a building full of demolition explosives (of which a lot are required for a safe controlled demolition) and nobody who works there notices? Hide it in the structure of the building? That would be beyond absurd.

Edited by user 08 September 2011 08:25:46(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Rincewind  
#10 Posted : 08 September 2011 17:13:00(UTC)
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oh i agree... wct 7 is strange though....
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline Gildermershina  
#11 Posted : 09 September 2011 11:26:40(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rincewind Go to Quoted Post
oh i agree... wct 7 is strange though....


True, but so is the fact I share a birthday with my favourite actor.
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Offline Rincewind  
#12 Posted : 09 September 2011 17:32:10(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gildermershina Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rincewind Go to Quoted Post
oh i agree... wct 7 is strange though....


True, but so is the fact I share a birthday with my favourite actor.


now your just being obtuse........ wct7 collapsed in the same manner as the main two buildings despite it being hit by only a few small bits of rubble and being as far away as other buildings which were fine....
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline Gildermershina  
#13 Posted : 09 September 2011 21:29:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rincewind Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Gildermershina Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rincewind Go to Quoted Post
oh i agree... wct 7 is strange though....


True, but so is the fact I share a birthday with my favourite actor.


now your just being obtuse........ wct7 collapsed in the same manner as the main two buildings despite it being hit by only a few small bits of rubble and being as far away as other buildings which were fine....


Yeah, and the sprinkler system in the building failed, causing a huge heat build-up from continuous fires which fire-fighters were not able to put out, leading to failure of supporting members, and eventually structural collapse. What hit the building is irrelevant, except insomuch as the building ended up on fire.
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Offline Raphaela  
#14 Posted : 11 September 2011 05:00:53(UTC)
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I honestly can't stand this shit anymore. Fine, it was a terrorist attack, and lots of people were killed, but it's been 10 fucking years...do we need to be remembered more about that?
I don't blame the families of people who died for being sad on a time like that, but do they have to talk about it and make countless of mentions and specials on TV and everywhere else?
And I'm not even on the US.
Gosh. /rantover
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Offline RoseJapanFan  
#15 Posted : 11 September 2011 05:19:10(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Raphaela Go to Quoted Post
I honestly can't stand this shit anymore. Fine, it was a terrorist attack, and lots of people were killed, but it's been 10 fucking years...do we need to be remembered more about that?
I don't blame the families of people who died for being sad on a time like that, but do they have to talk about it and make countless of mentions and specials on TV and everywhere else?
And I'm not even on the US.
Gosh. /rantover



That's exactly how I feel. I'm pretty tired of hearing about it over and over, same stuff.
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Offline Captain Insano  
#16 Posted : 11 September 2011 15:54:39(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Raphaela Go to Quoted Post
I honestly can't stand this shit anymore. Fine, it was a terrorist attack, and lots of people were killed, but it's been 10 fucking years...do we need to be remembered more about that?
I don't blame the families of people who died for being sad on a time like that, but do they have to talk about it and make countless of mentions and specials on TV and everywhere else?
And I'm not even on the US.
Gosh. /rantover


Yeah well, ten years is nothing considering the thousands that died in a pretty cataclysmic event and the many, many thousands who were directly affected through rescues and knowing somebody involved. I am pretty sure that even after ten years, hell even after twenty years, your still going to hear quite bit about a major world event that has had massive implications. Of course they are going to have it plastered all over the TV.
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#17 Posted : 11 September 2011 17:20:37(UTC)
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I believe in that conspiracy. After that attack, The U.S. attacked Iraq accusing them of having "Weapons of Mass Destruction". I mean come on. They claimed that they lost the planes. Anyways. Now that we have attacked Iraq and our troops are still there, we are also receiving their rich mineral oil. I live here in America and it is a greedy country.
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Offline Mckenzie-  
#18 Posted : 11 September 2011 20:22:20(UTC)
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Ive never said i believed the conspiracy of it all, im just looking for opinions. It does sound very strange and sketchy but maybe, this is just the type of president Bush was.

On the note of people conning to bring it up. I think it warrant's it. As someone posted, if you look at the amount of families/people directly affected by those attacks whether it be a loss of family member, a police officer/firefighter/paramedic on duty which will still be haunted by the scenes etc. We need to remember the brave souls that we're present that day and the thousands of lives that could have been prevented.
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Offline Rincewind  
#19 Posted : 11 September 2011 22:06:36(UTC)
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not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's and afganistani's who are still paying the price today.
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
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Mckenzie- on 12/09/2011(UTC)
Offline Mt. Epic  
#20 Posted : 12 September 2011 05:36:59(UTC)
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It's all about airport security. Many countries in the world set up airport security LONG BEFORE America did so, because they knew it was a place where thousands of people, without exaggeration, are in each day. Once a plane is in the air, there's nothing stopping a hostile takeover. It seems stupid not to include any form of security. To those complaining about how long it takes to get through security, suck it up! Don't think to yourself that, maybe one day, when all those wars in the middle east are over, and the world becomes all peaceful, we can FINALLY go through without any checkpoints. That's never going to happen. Deal with it.

It's sad what happened. Terrorist attacks are horrible, and we always have regrets for not having done something to prevent it, such as airport security. But, how couldn't there not be any checkpoints? It seems so dumb not to.

I'm not trying to push any conspiracy theories on. Personally, I don't think 9/11 was as true as we are meant to believe. There are certain aspects that I disagree with, but they are all debatable. But regardless, security should have always existed.
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Mckenzie- on 12/09/2011(UTC)
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