logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
User is suspended until 21/01/4750 08:10:37(UTC) Megastar  
#1 Posted : 24 February 2012 08:11:52(UTC)
Megastar
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 22/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: New York

Thanks: 37 times
Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 6 post(s)
When world war 2 started and Hitler began conquering nations in Europe. In August 1939, Hitler and Russia had signed a treaty of non-aggression which was meant to last for 10 years. I thought that was a brilliant move. In my opinion, I think the Axis Power lost the war due to Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, leading to the USA declaring war with them. And also, because of how Hitler commanded his army to attack Russia, even though there was a treaty signed by both nations. If Hitler never attacked Russia, in my opinion, he might have had a higher chance of winning the war. Also, Germany declared war on the US after the US declared war on Japan. I consider those moves retarded.

What's your opinion?
Offline Mckenzie-  
#2 Posted : 24 February 2012 08:14:59(UTC)
Mckenzie-
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 06/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,297
Man

Thanks: 1734 times
Was thanked: 1511 time(s) in 943 post(s)
Hitler was.. in the words of Danny Dyer 'a fackin' cant!'.
retired x
Offline Rincewind  
#3 Posted : 24 February 2012 08:21:48(UTC)
Rincewind
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Moderators, Registered
Joined: 10/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,995
Man
Location: i honestly don't know.

Thanks: 20 times
Was thanked: 124 time(s) in 87 post(s)
Hitler declaring war on the USA after pearl harbour wasn't as big a deal as people think... the USA was allready commited to the Allies with things like the lend-lease program.

Germany took out 65% of the Russian army in the first few months of their invasion of Russia and also had the support of most of the local populus at first..
i personally think it all started going tits up for them after Hitler and Stalin turned it into a personal issue, and Hitler started meddling in the Army's plans, tactics and not allowing the Army to lift the sige of Stalingrad before they were encircled...

Russia and Germany were always going to go to War simply because of their vastly different ideologies, but if it had been handled better and the Germany army had been able to cut off completly the Industrial heartland of Russia and mentain local support i don't think the Russians would have had any choice but to come to terms.
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
thanks 1 user thanked Rincewind for this useful post.
Megastar on 24/02/2012(UTC)
User is suspended until 21/01/4750 08:10:37(UTC) Megastar  
#4 Posted : 24 February 2012 08:24:38(UTC)
Megastar
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 22/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: New York

Thanks: 37 times
Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 6 post(s)
Yeah, that too. But remember, Hitler's soldiers started freezing when Russia's harsh winter started coming into effect.
Offline forkboy  
#5 Posted : 24 February 2012 08:50:15(UTC)
forkboy
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 05/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,255
Location: Glasgow

Thanks: 34 times
Was thanked: 107 time(s) in 82 post(s)
It comes down to Hitler was a fucking idiot. Well. I mean that's a simplification. But Hitler made several mistakes. Declaring war on America was a silly thing to do. Putting Goering in charge of the Luftwaffe was a very silly thing to do. Having total sycophants like Jodl & Keitel at the head of the OKW was really stupid. Hitler's refusal to allow tactical retreat was an awful mistake to make. Hitler constantly interfering in military planning, & sacking generals like Guderian, von Manstein & many others was a fatal mistake he made continually.

Really though, invading Russia in 1941 was what blew it all up. The Axis could easily have forced peace on Britain, but Hitler's ideological fervour got in the way of strategic wisdom. They were ill-prepared to invade Russia & at the very least should have waited a year, building up supplies in preparation for the bitter winter.
Offline erich hess  
#6 Posted : 24 February 2012 08:53:24(UTC)
erich hess
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Moderators, Registered
Joined: 09/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 42,798
Man
United States
Location: representing the 954

Thanks: 21831 times
Was thanked: 18057 time(s) in 10497 post(s)
i think it was more of a numbers thing. german tanks and equipment were way more advanced,but too complex and expensive. the american sherman tank was a death trap compared to the panzers and tigers. no to mention the sheer numbers of russian soldiers.
also,like its been said,hitler was a poor strategist and lost the moment he took on a two front war.

the japanese loss ,i think was partly due to their location and the issue of resources. they certainly were well enough trained and equipped.
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
"I'm not saying its even a good thing to own a chimpanzee. But that's freedom, folks." Alex Jones.
Offline forkboy  
#7 Posted : 24 February 2012 08:56:04(UTC)
forkboy
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 05/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,255
Location: Glasgow

Thanks: 34 times
Was thanked: 107 time(s) in 82 post(s)
I will say in defence of Hitler, going over the heads of the Chiefs of Staff in the military to endorse von Manstein's Plan to invade France, Belgium, Holland & Luxembourg turned out to be a very good decision indeed. Nobody expected tanks to roll through the Ardennes.
User is suspended until 21/01/4750 08:10:37(UTC) Megastar  
#8 Posted : 24 February 2012 09:14:30(UTC)
Megastar
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 22/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: New York

Thanks: 37 times
Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 6 post(s)
True, true.
Offline forkboy  
#9 Posted : 24 February 2012 09:20:57(UTC)
forkboy
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 05/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,255
Location: Glasgow

Thanks: 34 times
Was thanked: 107 time(s) in 82 post(s)
Originally Posted by: erich hess Go to Quoted Post
i think it was more of a numbers thing. german tanks and equipment were way more advanced,but too complex and expensive. the american sherman tank was a death trap compared to the panzers and tigers. no to mention the sheer numbers of russian soldiers.
also,like its been said,hitler was a poor strategist and lost the moment he took on a two front war.

the japanese loss ,i think was partly due to their location and the issue of resources. they certainly were well enough trained and equipped.

An interesting point on the tanks. The advantage of the Sherman was it was cheap & easy to produce compared to the German tanks. Germany struggled for the resources to put out all the tanks it needed near the end of the war. And the other issue was there was a serious reliability with things like the Tiger & King Tiger. The heavy tanks were really a waste that German industry couldn't afford.

Really, the T-34 was possibly the most important weapon of the war in Europe.

Edited by user 24 February 2012 09:22:14(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Rincewind  
#10 Posted : 24 February 2012 16:50:22(UTC)
Rincewind
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Moderators, Registered
Joined: 10/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,995
Man
Location: i honestly don't know.

Thanks: 20 times
Was thanked: 124 time(s) in 87 post(s)
oh god yes, the Russian T-34 was easily the best tank of the war
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline erich hess  
#11 Posted : 25 February 2012 03:25:39(UTC)
erich hess
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Moderators, Registered
Joined: 09/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 42,798
Man
United States
Location: representing the 954

Thanks: 21831 times
Was thanked: 18057 time(s) in 10497 post(s)
the russians really do get the short end of the stick when it comes to credit the fall of nazi germany.

hitler did give us the vw beetle,so he did do something right. i do love the old air cooled v dub products.
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
"I'm not saying its even a good thing to own a chimpanzee. But that's freedom, folks." Alex Jones.
thanks 1 user thanked erich hess for this useful post.
Megastar on 25/02/2012(UTC)
Offline forkboy  
#12 Posted : 25 February 2012 04:16:17(UTC)
forkboy
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 05/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,255
Location: Glasgow

Thanks: 34 times
Was thanked: 107 time(s) in 82 post(s)
Originally Posted by: erich hess Go to Quoted Post
the russians really do get the short end of the stick when it comes to credit the fall of nazi germany.

hitler did give us the vw beetle,so he did do something right. i do love the old air cooled v dub products.

Plus the Autobahn's really were ahead of their time. I mean it took the US 20 more years to get their Interstate Highways, & Eisenhower openly admitted to being influenced by the road system he'd seen in Germany during the war.

I really like reading about the Soviet Union. Would love to find a good book about the various purges in the pre-war era in the off chance that any of you guys can recommend one?
User is suspended until 21/01/4750 08:10:37(UTC) Megastar  
#13 Posted : 25 February 2012 04:18:13(UTC)
Megastar
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 22/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: New York

Thanks: 37 times
Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 6 post(s)
In one article, it said that WWII is one of the main reasons why the US is a global super power.
Offline erich hess  
#14 Posted : 25 February 2012 05:06:37(UTC)
erich hess
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Moderators, Registered
Joined: 09/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 42,798
Man
United States
Location: representing the 954

Thanks: 21831 times
Was thanked: 18057 time(s) in 10497 post(s)
the aftermath of ww2 helped the usa immensely become what it is today. we had zero competition,since so much of the world was in shambles.

i cant say ive read much about pre war russia.so i cant suggest much.i work with a lot of eldery russian women,and i do love to hear their stories. the nation does interest me.
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
"I'm not saying its even a good thing to own a chimpanzee. But that's freedom, folks." Alex Jones.
User is suspended until 21/01/4750 08:10:37(UTC) Megastar  
#15 Posted : 25 February 2012 05:27:55(UTC)
Megastar
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 22/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: New York

Thanks: 37 times
Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 6 post(s)
Yeah, after ww2, many countries depended on the US.
Offline Rincewind  
#16 Posted : 25 February 2012 07:24:06(UTC)
Rincewind
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Moderators, Registered
Joined: 10/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,995
Man
Location: i honestly don't know.

Thanks: 20 times
Was thanked: 124 time(s) in 87 post(s)
great book called the history of russia... deals more with the period between 1000-1800 ad though
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
thanks 1 user thanked Rincewind for this useful post.
Megastar on 25/02/2012(UTC)
Offline forkboy  
#17 Posted : 26 February 2012 05:09:19(UTC)
forkboy
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 05/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,255
Location: Glasgow

Thanks: 34 times
Was thanked: 107 time(s) in 82 post(s)
On this whole topic, if you can watch stuff on the iPlayer then this is worth a watch
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ipl..._T34_The_Queen_of_Tanks/

It's from the show Decisive Weapons, & is all about the T34
Offline Mt. Epic  
#18 Posted : 07 April 2012 14:39:13(UTC)
Mt. Epic
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,749
Man
Location: Somewhere in the universe

Thanks: 11 times
Was thanked: 39 time(s) in 28 post(s)
I think Hitler's biggest blunder was invading Russia, especially when he did. He felt he had a large upper hand in the Western Front that he could risk the two-front war. He already had France under his grip, and Central Europe was under his control. Austria openly welcomed Hitler when he "invaded". He left Britain in a more defensive state. They only could bomb cities from above, and that wasn't as occurring until the US joined in. But Hitler didn't realize that America was still open to join in, and the British weren't destroyed. They played defense extremely well against the Germans. He wasn't finished in the West yet. He went on to attack Russia, and thought his men could withstand them, but his tanks and equipment were too weak in the Russia climate. I think also when he let the allies escape at Dunkirk was a major mistake. He could have easily destroyed the fleeing French, Dutch, and British troops in Dunkirk, but instead kept his tanks away from the scene because he "didn't want them to get scratches".
UserPostedImage

Fuck yo punk ass! Da BBC Kingz gon' getchu!
Offline Montrenomo  
#19 Posted : 28 June 2012 20:08:25(UTC)
Montrenomo
Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Israel

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Hitler signed the treaty knowing he will eventually invade the Soviet Union. He hated Communists and Slavic people too, though not as much as Jews. It was probably a stupid thing to do (strategically), but this is what he believed in.
When the Soviets began to fight the Nazis off, his advisers told him to back off to regroup and attack again, and he refused to do so claiming that No Aryan should ever back away in front of a Slavic
Offline Rincewind  
#20 Posted : 28 June 2012 21:48:52(UTC)
Rincewind
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Moderators, Registered
Joined: 10/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,995
Man
Location: i honestly don't know.

Thanks: 20 times
Was thanked: 124 time(s) in 87 post(s)
after thinking about this some more.....
Hitler should never have gotten involved in north Africa, it sucked too many troops away, and he kept on reinforcing them even up to one week before they surrendered. This would also have prevented him from diverting a major part of his submarine force to the medditeranean and enabkled him to keep the preasure on the atlantic convoys
He should have pushed his jappenesse allies to push into Russia though China, even after the disaster at Khalkhin Gol instead of expanding south across the Island chains, this would have prevented Stalin from sending troops from his eastern boarders to the western front, as well have prevented Japan from provoking the USA for at least another few years.
When he did invade Russia, he should have ensured he had enough motorised and wide track transports and tanks, instead of just relying on the equiptment captured in France. He should also have co-opted the Ukraines and SLavs into his army more, instead of terrorizing them and making them form partisan groups to harras his rear and supply chains.

i honstly think, if he had done this, the USA would have stayed out of the war for another few years, just providing help in the form of lend-lease, he could have pushed and isolated Stalin more (as Stalins only other ally would have been Britan, and he did not trust us one bit), maybe even managing to capture the oilfields. Forcing terms on Russia and then turning back to re-inforce his atlanic wall against the probable British and American invasion.

What Hitler failed to do most of all is learn from History and realise that Britain was always going to carry on and wage war the way it always has, on the periphery, weakening their enemy before finally send troops in near the end (to which WW 1 was a major departure, and a major disaster).
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.446 seconds.