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Offline forkboy  
#41 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:25:18(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
forkboy wrote:

No. I'm sorry, but that's not true. Take countries like Spain & France for example. Wine is a part of their culture, and kids often drink wine in restaurants from the age of 14, when accompanied by their parents. And yet it's the UK that has the worst binge drinking problems in Europe, not the French. Kids are, more often than not, going to experiment with alcohol. That's just a fact. So we need to teach them how to drink responsibly, and how to enjoy a good wine, rather than going out and drinking 14 bottles of Bacardi Breezers, or attacking one of those cheap three litre bottles of cider with their pals in some forest.


Just because some kids do it doesn't mean everyone does it. I really don't know nor never heard that about Spain or France but if that's their culture so be it. But in he UK and the US it is not allowed. Teaching a kid how to enjoy wine is like saying teaching a baby how to run. It doesn't make sense. Kids drinking is the worst idea because they are not adults and they are childish, so drinking only makes it worse. The effect of alcohol itself is bad on adult imagine on children. Sorry but that just doesn't cut it for me.

I'm talking about a glass of wine over dinner once or twice a month, I'm not planning on forcing a litre of vodka down there throat every night!

It's not about teaching your kids to drink. It's about teaching them how to drink RESPONSIBLY. That is the key word. If you say "don't do that" to a teenager, they are going to do it, the forbidden fruit and all that. That's the nature of being a teen, you want to rebel against something. If you've been brought up to respect alcohol the chances are that you want rebel by getting shit faced every single weekend in a park.

I was brought up in a house with alcohol, my parents had no quams with giving myself or my sister wine, or letting us taste their beer or their whisky. I ended up going until a couple of weeks before my 18th birthday before I even got drunk for the first time. I was brought up to respect alcohol.

Edited by user 09 August 2009 12:28:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#42 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:26:14(UTC)
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sav wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
old.gregg wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
That's why a parent needs to say "NO!" that way when the kid does drink you can punish him/her for not following the rules, otherwise the kid will be like "but you never said drinking is a bad thing or that I couldn't do it" Be a parent not a friend.


That works in very few cases - young teens are drawn to breaking their parents rules. If you put a ban on something that has a mystery surrounding it like alcohol, you're more or less asking for trouble in my opinion.


No! No! No! No! As a parent your duty is to set rules that will make your child stay away from any danger, and by not putting rules your kids will be more liberal and the more liberal the more trouble you will have.


my parents are way to liberal with me, but i still obey them and don't do what they won't let me do. i'm in the best school in argentina and one of the best in south america, i'm in the third year (the hardest) with great results in all my exams (well, excepting maths), and i go out almost every weekend except when i have a lot to study. i don't have any troubles with my parents, people, police, or anything. my point is - i was teached since i was a child about the problems of smoking and drinking, and all my family smokes and drinks. i smoke weed, and my parents don't prohibe it to me, but tell me it would be better if i don't do it. and, with all, i'm a great student and person, i don't get in trouble, have a great relationship with my family and i already know how i will educate my children: just how my parents did.


I'm having a hard time to believe this.
Offline sav  
#43 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:29:41(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
sav wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
old.gregg wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
That's why a parent needs to say "NO!" that way when the kid does drink you can punish him/her for not following the rules, otherwise the kid will be like "but you never said drinking is a bad thing or that I couldn't do it" Be a parent not a friend.


That works in very few cases - young teens are drawn to breaking their parents rules. If you put a ban on something that has a mystery surrounding it like alcohol, you're more or less asking for trouble in my opinion.


No! No! No! No! As a parent your duty is to set rules that will make your child stay away from any danger, and by not putting rules your kids will be more liberal and the more liberal the more trouble you will have.


my parents are way to liberal with me, but i still obey them and don't do what they won't let me do. i'm in the best school in argentina and one of the best in south america, i'm in the third year (the hardest) with great results in all my exams (well, excepting maths), and i go out almost every weekend except when i have a lot to study. i don't have any troubles with my parents, people, police, or anything. my point is - i was teached since i was a child about the problems of smoking and drinking, and all my family smokes and drinks. i smoke weed, and my parents don't prohibe it to me, but tell me it would be better if i don't do it. and, with all, i'm a great student and person, i don't get in trouble, have a great relationship with my family and i already know how i will educate my children: just how my parents did.


I'm having a hard time to believe this.


it's your choice to believe me or not. i'm only giving an existing example of what i'm trying to say. my school is called colegio nacional de buenos aires, search for it if you want. i don't know how to show you that i study there, though. it depends on you.
User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#44 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:31:48(UTC)
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forkboy wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
forkboy wrote:

No. I'm sorry, but that's not true. Take countries like Spain & France for example. Wine is a part of their culture, and kids often drink wine in restaurants from the age of 14, when accompanied by their parents. And yet it's the UK that has the worst binge drinking problems in Europe, not the French. Kids are, more often than not, going to experiment with alcohol. That's just a fact. So we need to teach them how to drink responsibly, and how to enjoy a good wine, rather than going out and drinking 14 bottles of Bacardi Breezers, or attacking one of those cheap three litre bottles of cider with their pals in some forest.


Just because some kids do it doesn't mean everyone does it. I really don't know nor never heard that about Spain or France but if that's their culture so be it. But in he UK and the US it is not allowed. Teaching a kid how to enjoy wine is like saying teaching a baby how to run. It doesn't make sense. Kids drinking is the worst idea because they are not adults and they are childish, so drinking only makes it worse. The effect of alcohol itself is bad on adult imagine on children. Sorry but that just doesn't cut it for me.

I'm talking about a glass of wine over dinner once or twice a month, I'm not planning on forcing a litre of vodka down there throat every night!


Shame on you LMAO! Sorry I'm just having a hard time trying to make this make sense.

You just contradicted yourself. You said you wouldn't say no to your child. Like what if your child wants to drink everyday or every other day, If you wanted him to drink once or twice a month you would have to say no to him. He then will get upset and do it anyway because he thinks in his mind drinking isn't wrong.

Offline sav  
#45 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:33:58(UTC)
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sav wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
That's why a parent needs to say "NO!" that way when the kid does drink you can punish him/her for not following the rules, otherwise the kid will be like "but you never said drinking is a bad thing or that I couldn't do it" Be a parent not a friend.


all i can say about that is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. first of all, the same elliott said - if you tend to not let your son to do some things, he will have curiosity for it and will always be attracted to it. for example, if a young teen who always got a "no" from his parents in all matters surrounding alcohol, when he is hanging out with his friends and they are drinking, he will probably drink, and the results will be much worse than it would be if he was educated before by his parents. a similar example would be in charlie and the chocolate factory - willy wonka's dad never let him eat chocolate. one day he did and he became addicted to it, because it's something that he always had prohibited and wanted to know about.

second, educating your children about drinking alcohol doesn't mean you will let them drink all the time or something like that. for example, my parents let me drink when i'm out, but they wouldn't like it if i drank to much. so i don't. i have a lot of respect to my parents and follow they rules (almost) always. of course that there are different cases, and different people that have less control on themselves, but i think than an average person would do the same. i know my parents won't let me drink 'til i fall, so i don't. i'm not saying i haven't throw up or being drunk, but i try to not break the limit a lot.

and, finally - how can you say "be a parent, not a friend"? that's the worst thing i've ever heard concerning this stuff. if you have a distant relation with your parents, you will tend to lose respect for them and do the things they won't let you doing. i have a great relationship with my parents, i tell my mom everything i do and everything that happens to me. she knows that i smoke, drink and smoke with and she teaches me about that (she never smoke weed but knows cases and that). if you can't talk with your parents like a friend, you'll feel that you don't have the contention you need in your house, so you will try to find it in other places - for example, hanging out with people that smoke weed and you see they have a good time and doesn't feel bad at all, so you start doing it. there's a lot of errors in what you said. think about it.


you haven't answered to that steph, could you?
User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#46 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:34:50(UTC)
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sav wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
sav wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
old.gregg wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
That's why a parent needs to say "NO!" that way when the kid does drink you can punish him/her for not following the rules, otherwise the kid will be like "but you never said drinking is a bad thing or that I couldn't do it" Be a parent not a friend.


That works in very few cases - young teens are drawn to breaking their parents rules. If you put a ban on something that has a mystery surrounding it like alcohol, you're more or less asking for trouble in my opinion.


No! No! No! No! As a parent your duty is to set rules that will make your child stay away from any danger, and by not putting rules your kids will be more liberal and the more liberal the more trouble you will have.


my parents are way to liberal with me, but i still obey them and don't do what they won't let me do. i'm in the best school in argentina and one of the best in south america, i'm in the third year (the hardest) with great results in all my exams (well, excepting maths), and i go out almost every weekend except when i have a lot to study. i don't have any troubles with my parents, people, police, or anything. my point is - i was teached since i was a child about the problems of smoking and drinking, and all my family smokes and drinks. i smoke weed, and my parents don't prohibe it to me, but tell me it would be better if i don't do it. and, with all, i'm a great student and person, i don't get in trouble, have a great relationship with my family and i already know how i will educate my children: just how my parents did.


I'm having a hard time to believe this.


it's your choice to believe me or not. i'm only giving an existing example of what i'm trying to say. my school is called colegio nacional de buenos aires, search for it if you want. i don't know how to show you that i study there, though. it depends on you.


Sorry but I just don't believe that.

Offline old.gregg  
#47 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:36:22(UTC)
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What rational adult would let their child drink whatever they want? That's not what this is about, it's about a parent being able to control what their child is drinking and the child accepting that it's not wrong to drink, as long as you drink responsibly.

EDIT: Sav - you don't have to prove anything, you're alright xD

Edited by user 09 August 2009 12:38:21(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

-
Offline forkboy  
#48 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:39:13(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:

Shame on you LMAO! Sorry I'm just having a hard time trying to make this make sense.

You just contradicted yourself. You said you wouldn't say no to your child. Like what if your child wants to drink everyday or every other day, If you wanted him to drink once or twice a month you would have to say no to him. He then will get upset and do it anyway because he thinks in his mind drinking isn't wrong.


Find out where in this thread I've said anything about what I'd do for my children except just there when I said a couple of glasses a month. The key word, that I've repeated time and time again, is teaching your children to be responsible with drink. Of course that would mean saying "no" to your 13 year old who wants you to buy a bottle of vodka for him. That's not responsible
Offline forkboy  
#49 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:41:26(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
Sorry but I just don't believe that.


Why do you continually do this Steph? I'm not being aggressive so please don't get offended by this question. But why do you keep on telling people that you think they are lying on this board? Time and time again you do it. The question is, why would they lie about any of the claims that you've decided are lies? What do they gain from lying about what school they go to on an internet forum? I just can't quite understand it, it does nothing but set up lines of hositlity: nobody likes being called a liar. Especially when they aren't lying.
User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#50 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:42:55(UTC)
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sav wrote:
sav wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
That's why a parent needs to say "NO!" that way when the kid does drink you can punish him/her for not following the rules, otherwise the kid will be like "but you never said drinking is a bad thing or that I couldn't do it" Be a parent not a friend.


all i can say about that is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. first of all, the same elliott said - if you tend to not let your son to do some things, he will have curiosity for it and will always be attracted to it. for example, if a young teen who always got a "no" from his parents in all matters surrounding alcohol, when he is hanging out with his friends and they are drinking, he will probably drink, and the results will be much worse than it would be if he was educated before by his parents. a similar example would be in charlie and the chocolate factory - willy wonka's dad never let him eat chocolate. one day he did and he became addicted to it, because it's something that he always had prohibited and wanted to know about.

second, educating your children about drinking alcohol doesn't mean you will let them drink all the time or something like that. for example, my parents let me drink when i'm out, but they wouldn't like it if i drank to much. so i don't. i have a lot of respect to my parents and follow they rules (almost) always. of course that there are different cases, and different people that have less control on themselves, but i think than an average person would do the same. i know my parents won't let me drink 'til i fall, so i don't. i'm not saying i haven't throw up or being drunk, but i try to not break the limit a lot.

and, finally - how can you say "be a parent, not a friend"? that's the worst thing i've ever heard concerning this stuff. if you have a distant relation with your parents, you will tend to lose respect for them and do the things they won't let you doing. i have a great relationship with my parents, i tell my mom everything i do and everything that happens to me. she knows that i smoke, drink and smoke with and she teaches me about that (she never smoke weed but knows cases and that). if you can't talk with your parents like a friend, you'll feel that you don't have the contention you need in your house, so you will try to find it in other places - for example, hanging out with people that smoke weed and you see they have a good time and doesn't feel bad at all, so you start doing it. there's a lot of errors in what you said. think about it.


you haven't answered to that steph, could you?


You must be a parent not a friend. First of all a friend isn't family. By being a friend your kid will have no serious respect for you. You must talk to your parents like they are your parents not your friends. Being a Parent isn't just about setting rules its about being there when your child needs you the most. Friends will never do as much as your parents will do for you because they have their own responsibilities and rules to follow. Y
User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#51 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:44:29(UTC)
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forkboy wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Sorry but I just don't believe that.


Why do you continually do this Steph? I'm not being aggressive so please don't get offended by this question. But why do you keep on telling people that you think they are lying on this board? Time and time again you do it. The question is, why would they lie about any of the claims that you've decided are lies? What do they gain from lying about what school they go to on an internet forum? I just can't quite understand it, it does nothing but set up lines of hositlity: nobody likes being called a liar. Especially when they aren't lying.


First of all why are you taking this so seriously we are only debating.
Offline forkboy  
#52 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:45:50(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
forkboy wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Sorry but I just don't believe that.


Why do you continually do this Steph? I'm not being aggressive so please don't get offended by this question. But why do you keep on telling people that you think they are lying on this board? Time and time again you do it. The question is, why would they lie about any of the claims that you've decided are lies? What do they gain from lying about what school they go to on an internet forum? I just can't quite understand it, it does nothing but set up lines of hositlity: nobody likes being called a liar. Especially when they aren't lying.


First of all why are you taking this so seriously we are only debating.

I'm not. I'm asking a question.
Offline forkboy  
#53 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:47:12(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
You must be a parent not a friend. First of all a friend isn't family. By being a friend your kid will have no serious respect for you. You must talk to your parents like they are your parents not your friends. Being a Parent isn't just about setting rules its about being there when your child needs you the most. Friends will never do as much as your parents will do for you because they have their own responsibilities and rules to follow. Y

How many kids have you got Steph?

:)

Sorry, but I think Sav's parents no more about parenting than either your or me, as neither of us have ever been in that situation (well, I'm guessing you aren't a parent).
Offline old.gregg  
#54 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:47:34(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
forkboy wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Sorry but I just don't believe that.


Why do you continually do this Steph? I'm not being aggressive so please don't get offended by this question. But why do you keep on telling people that you think they are lying on this board? Time and time again you do it. The question is, why would they lie about any of the claims that you've decided are lies? What do they gain from lying about what school they go to on an internet forum? I just can't quite understand it, it does nothing but set up lines of hositlity: nobody likes being called a liar. Especially when they aren't lying.


First of all why are you taking this so seriously we are only debating.


To be fair.. we're in serious debate.
-
User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#55 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:48:34(UTC)
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forkboy wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
forkboy wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Sorry but I just don't believe that.


Why do you continually do this Steph? I'm not being aggressive so please don't get offended by this question. But why do you keep on telling people that you think they are lying on this board? Time and time again you do it. The question is, why would they lie about any of the claims that you've decided are lies? What do they gain from lying about what school they go to on an internet forum? I just can't quite understand it, it does nothing but set up lines of hositlity: nobody likes being called a liar. Especially when they aren't lying.


First of all why are you taking this so seriously we are only debating.

I'm not. I'm asking a question.


A question which is irrelevant to the topic which is drugs and alcohol. meaning your taking this personally. Like Old Gregg said "This is debate, it's not being said against you personally. The idea is, you're both going to come up against differing opinions, and you discuss them, instead of taking offence"
User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#56 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:50:52(UTC)
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forkboy wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
You must be a parent not a friend. First of all a friend isn't family. By being a friend your kid will have no serious respect for you. You must talk to your parents like they are your parents not your friends. Being a Parent isn't just about setting rules its about being there when your child needs you the most. Friends will never do as much as your parents will do for you because they have their own responsibilities and rules to follow. Y

How many kids have you got Steph?

:)

Sorry, but I think Sav's parents no more about parenting than either your or me, as neither of us have ever been in that situation (well, I'm guessing you aren't a parent).


I am not a parent but I had to babysit almost 24/7 growing up which basically I was taking responsibilities of a parent. In college I have learned many things about parenting, and all the info that I am telling you is from what I learned in college mixing in some of my opinion.
Offline sav  
#57 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:52:10(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
You must be a parent not a friend. First of all a friend isn't family. By being a friend your kid will have no serious respect for you. You must talk to your parents like they are your parents not your friends. Being a Parent isn't just about setting rules its about being there when your child needs you the most. Friends will never do as much as your parents will do for you because they have their own responsibilities and rules to follow. Y


but when i say "friend", i mean metaphorically speaking. of course you won't be hanging out with your dad and go and smoke some weed with him. i mean you of course have to be respectful to them, but also have a good relationship so you won't need to find what your parents can't give you emotionally and psychologically in other places, like i said before. i have respect for my parents, but i can't talk to them like they were my friends, with the add that they lived a lot more than me and know much about a lot of things that i don't. so sometimes is better ask for my parents' word that a friend's word.
Offline sav  
#58 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:53:33(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
forkboy wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Sorry but I just don't believe that.


Why do you continually do this Steph? I'm not being aggressive so please don't get offended by this question. But why do you keep on telling people that you think they are lying on this board? Time and time again you do it. The question is, why would they lie about any of the claims that you've decided are lies? What do they gain from lying about what school they go to on an internet forum? I just can't quite understand it, it does nothing but set up lines of hositlity: nobody likes being called a liar. Especially when they aren't lying.


First of all why are you taking this so seriously we are only debating.


because you offended me with no point at all.
User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#59 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:56:06(UTC)
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sav wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
You must be a parent not a friend. First of all a friend isn't family. By being a friend your kid will have no serious respect for you. You must talk to your parents like they are your parents not your friends. Being a Parent isn't just about setting rules its about being there when your child needs you the most. Friends will never do as much as your parents will do for you because they have their own responsibilities and rules to follow. Y


but when i say "friend", i mean metaphorically speaking. of course you won't be hanging out with your dad and go and smoke some weed with him. i mean you of course have to be respectful to them, but also have a good relationship so you won't need to find what your parents can't give you emotionally and psychologically in other places, like i said before. i have respect for my parents, but i can't talk to them like they were my friends, with the add that they lived a lot more than me and know much about a lot of things that i don't. so sometimes is better ask for my parents' word that a friend's word.



Then your using the wrong term, you should be using the term "Parent". The whole you talk to your parents like they are your friends is crap. If you had sex with someone your willing to be more detailed with your friend than your parent (if you do tell them that stuff, which by the way Is weird).

I am not a parent but I had to babysit almost 24/7 growing up which basically I was taking responsibilities of a parent. In college I have learned many things about parenting, and all the info that I am telling you is from what I learned in college mixing in some of my opinion.
Offline troymazing  
#60 Posted : 09 August 2009 12:59:03(UTC)
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old.gregg wrote:
What rational adult would let their child drink whatever they want? That's not what this is about, it's about a parent being able to control what their child is drinking and the child accepting that it's not wrong to drink, as long as you drink responsibly.

EDIT: Sav - you don't have to prove anything, you're alright xD


My mother must not be very rational... :D
GirlSpice wrote:
Oh well.. she sits outside then. LOL!

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