In Conversation with CHRISTOPHER HUDSON
Presented by Half-Moon Music // Interviewed by Ashford York
Los Angeles, California, USA
September 17, 2024

---

Christopher Hudson, buddy I feel like this one is going to be a good one. I’ve been lucky to sit down with some incredible artists since we’ve been doing this whole thing but for me personally, I’m so fucking excited to really get the opportunity to chat with you in depth about the entirety of your career but more specifically the path that you find yourself on now as THE songwriter to the stars.
Wow, what a welcome! I was looking over my shoulder the whole time thinking; "is he talking to someone else?!". It's crazy to hear that come back to me but thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be in your company too. I'm quite the fan myself.

It’s difficult to know where to start because naturally I want to go into the more recent stuff. But first off I feel like a little background on yourself could inform the later conversations about the songwriting process. What was it that first clicked for you that this was the business you needed to find yourself involved in in some capacity?
I was just born an all-singing, all-dancing kid. My father was an Italian immigrant that was raised in Brooklyn, my mom was a high school cheerleader from L.A. so, you know, a whole lot of dramatics and attention seeking in my blood, haha! I always wanted to perform and entertain people. I actually started out wanting to do stage work. Musicals, Broadway. Just real subtle, humble dreams, right? Ha! That's how I begged and screamed to go to a performing arts school. My career thus far has just been a bunch of happy accidents and me grabbing any opportunity that comes across my desk. School led me to open call auditioning which led me to The Stat Nerds, which led me to TV work, which led me to the platform I have today.

See I’ve always thought that kids with that performing arts background have that extra advantage because I know from personal experience that it’s not always about the end product but the journey to get to it. You spend a lot of time in that environment really dissecting the work and learning to understand it’s purpose and intent. It seems obvious now that one of the greatest songwriters of this generation was a performing arts kid.
Yeah, I totally get that. I feel like so many people will think I was a kid with a silver spoon. It was a different reality behind closed doors. I won't get into specifics because this isn't an episode of Dr. Phil. There's just many reasons why I have zero contact with my father now. Basically...shady dealings. Yeah, shady dealings we'll call it. Our family lived above our means and was spending money we had no business having by rights. My dad thought of himself as this great provider but he really threw money our way to shut us up and keep us sweet while he did his things. My time in school was rough because I felt major imposter syndrome. I was this kid with an odd Italian-Brooklyn accent in the West Coast in amongst these nepotism babies and literal teenagers who had their own yachts. I didn't belong there and most people also made that known.

I'm not denying I didn't have some advantage over others trying to make their way in the world, in the industry. I didn't have the struggle of living hand to mouth, busking to make a living, knocking down the doors of record labels, any of that. I did still have the fight of earning my seat at the table. I went through the notions of feeling like I don't belong, being told that I'll never make it, being mocked for my background and heritage, threatened by people with money and power when I was coming up and treading on toes. Going through all that and to hear you call me one of this generation's greatest songwriters? It's truly heart-warming.

So, do your alma maters and former high schools have the shrine up in the halls for you yet?
God, probably not! I wasn't exactly their favorite student. It would be cool if the did have some sort of acknowledgement in their hallways. That'd really stroke the ego and be a huge middle finger up to those who were less than kind. I'm doubtful but I think I'm gonna imagine they do now.

How old were you when you started out with Stat Nerds?
I think about 19? 19/20, something like that? Not young young but still infantile enough to remember feeling so overwhelmed by the adult world when it all took off. I'm 34 now. Practically dead in boyband years. I look back and think I was still such a baby then. I'm good friends with Dustyn Blue and he was 15 when he joined Weekend. FIFTEEN. As young artists aimed to a certain demographic, we lose a lot of our youth to insane amounts of work.

I remember you guys coming into the industry and I think there was a period when a lot of people were like, “fuck, these are going to be the next big thing”. It definitely felt from the outside looking in that the machine got behind you guys very quickly and I feel like in hindsight it may have been the first of many obstacles that was actually more of a hindrance to your trajectory.
Yes and no. The pressures to maintain a certain standard and succeed with all these eyes watching you not to mention constant reminders about how much money people are throwing at you, it can be so daunting! I feel like the fall from grace is also a painful one once you've had that huge recognition. It's easier to either slip completely off the radar or climb back up when the world isn't watching and commenting. However, I'm grateful that such a big launch put us on the map. I wouldn't have had all these opportunities if not for the success of The Stat Nerds. We wouldn't have amassed a bunch of wonderful, loyal and dedicated fans who, to this day, still champion us. Whenever I feel down or I'm questioning what I'm doing, it's not long before a supporter randomly sends a message that reassures me. Knowing that people still care, that I still have a support system out there after all these years? That really helps keeps me going and I doubt I'd have that if not for the big industry machine.

It was a short lived run that you guys had, a bunch of hit singles and a collaboration with Sophia from GirlSpice and just as it felt like you were taking off it all just came to a halt. For years there’s been differing stories on what halted the career of Stat Nerds as a whole. I think it’s vaguely understood that there’s some sort of legal issue involving a couple of record labels, previous owners. What exactly is the full story?
Legally, I can't go into too much depth. No naming of names. There's a whole lot of red tape and I'd have to write a hundred #1 hits in order to afford the fees! Essentially, The Stat Nerds are stuck in limbo and there's a fractured, precarious handling of business matters that are above our heads. The person who owns the trademarking of The Stat Nerds name is someone completely different to who owns the right to our voices on legally released recordings. Agreements reach a lot of stalemates. It's a nightmare to get all parties on board when it's time to distribute something through official channels. Effectively, we just can't move forward. What it boils down to essentially is money and the moral of the story is don't sign contracts without a lawyer going through it first. We were young, too eager and signed on the dotted line before we realised that it really wasn't a great deal at all.

Do you still remain in close contact with the other guys from the group?
Absolutely. We're best of friends. Brothers. We are technically still together. Nobody has thrown in the towel. We're just essentially dormant right now. In order to push back and push forward, the four of us would really have to knuckle down and make it our only commitment to fight through this. We're all just at different stages of our lives right now but yeah, we're still close. I actually had lunch with Dennis a couple days ago.

I mean, 2024 and 2025 seems to be the year that huge comebacks are happening. Personally, I think a bunch of live shows from Stat Nerds could be a pretty fun thing to witness. Just throwing the idea out there.
I would love that. Especially for our situation, touring would be where it's at. I can't remember the last time I was on stage. I think that's what I miss most. Like I said earlier, I've always wanted to do stage work. Feeding off a live crowd in any capacity whether it's singing or acting, it's such a natural high that can't be topped. Wish I could bottle that feeling. The electric buzz of a live audience.

Where exactly would you find the time though, right?
Ha, well I'm actually extremely good at multitasking. I've been at this so long, I can juggle it all. I'm always on and that's not a boast. Sometimes I wish I could switch off. I'll be out at dinner with someone, they'll say something and they'll see that glint in my eye and know that an idea has entered my head. "You're gonna send yourself a voice note, aren't you?". Yeah, yeah I am. You sit there and enjoy your spaghetti, I'm just gonna blurt out this chorus idea real quick.

I have to confess that there’s a certain element of jealousy from my side of things here. Y’know, I do a little producing from time to time. Mostly under the radar, wildly uncommercial weird fusion bands that nobodies ever heard of but just a glance at the sort of people that you’ve sat down and wrote songs with would just be a fever dream of mine. It must be a special feeling that this level of people call on you to work with?
You should send me a link to some of your own stuff. I'd love to check that out! Uh, yeah, it's bizarre. I still pinch myself to this day. When people talk about my achievements and list off all the cuts I've got, on paper, it's as if it has happened to someone else. I'm so honored but still kinda have that imposter syndrome thing going on. Which I think is a good thing in its way. It stops me from getting complacent. I still have a drive and urge to prove myself and earn my stripes.

Of course it’s not just the songwriting, but your first career path away from Stat Nerds was as a personality. TV host, presenter whatever you’d like to call it. It showcased the personality and I think endeared you to a lot of people in the entertainment industry as somebody that could be relied upon. Do you think that was ultimately the key to unlocking this stage of your career?
I think so, yeah. Obviously hosting some shows and making appearance didn't showcase my song writing ability but it definitely helped boost my profile. I built up a lot of connections and a bigger public following which allowed me to promote the music side of things. I think I still would've gravitated towards song writing but having that profile and drive to do something to keep The Stat Nerds alive and my lights on, it really motivated me to make big moves. Forever grateful for the opportunities that have come my way.

I think it’s difficult to really do justice to how huge Celebrity Big Brother was not only for you but for everybody involved. It was a cultural touchstone that certainly helped a lot of people’s careers just by sheer eyes watching the product. How do you view that period of time essentially as the familiar face of such a huge show?
Luck comes into it again. I was scouted for what I believe the be the peak era of the show. We were season 4. It had established a huge following by that point, was off the ground and running and the producers just wanted to continuously up the ante. I'm so thankful to the public for taking me to their hearts and forever indebted to the producers for having me on the show, and then letting me host for the following seasons. The last decade and a bit of my life has been one big domino effect. I couldn't imagine what my life would be like without that show. Not just in terms of profile and opportunities but for the friends I made from that time. I've got 10 year long friendships from that crazy show.

It took you to a whole new audience beyond just the music industry. The UK certainly appeared to take you in as their own on the back of the shows popularity and success. It must have been a challenge going from just another celebrity in the US to the popularity you received over in the UK?
It was such a culture shock but God, I loved it. I still have a huge adoration for the UK. They really adopted me. Other people may have hated it and found it patronising but when I first cropped up, they were all treating me like a pet, like a toddler learning to walk. They thought I was adorable and I loved it. I was so out of my depths and adjusting to British culture in real-time on television. I remember coming out of Big Brother and being asked to do a panel show called Celebrity Juice. Bro, I had no fucking clue what was going on but I loved the chaos. They were laughing at me not understanding the lingo or the punchlines which in turn became the joke in itself. So it went from laughing at me to laughing with me as I got into it and decided to play the role of the clueless American. I've also hosted on This Morning, Good Morning Britain, presented at The Brit Awards. I've had more work in the UK than at home! I love that wacky little country.

Of course Big Brother came to an end of its run and Stat Nerds were effectively inactive, how exactly did you find yourself in this songwriting guru position that you now find yourself in?
When I came off of the show, our team were actually eager to release something to capitalise on it all. We released "Out With a Bang" which became a big hit for us. That just so happened to be one I had written and was in the vaults for a while before it actually got to see the light of day. With that and a few of the contacts I had made from Big Bro, I started to branch out and write for some others. It wasn't a masterplan. I was literally just taking an opportunity to stretch my creative muscles. When I realised how much I enjoyed it and when the wheels started to come off behind the scenes again, I knew I had a viable alternative option. A way of keeping creative and hopefully paying the bills. I continued to do it for a couple of years while still battling with group related obstacles behind the scenes but when I realised things just weren't gonna budge any time soon, I made that fulltime pivot. Thankfully, I've been lucky enough to have had the successes that I've had. I know a lot of talented writers who just sadly haven't had that same break.

When writing, do you always have an artists voice in mind for each particular song?
Sometimes, yeah. I'll write and pitch it to them even if they aren't actively asking for material. Shoot your shot, you know? More often than not, it's just writing and recording for the sake of it. Flexing the muscle and building up a bank of songs. I have dozens of folders filled with songs that have different vibes so if someone comes to me with a very specific request, I can look through the archives quickly and pull up some pop songs to send their way right there on the spot. I would say that the music I've made for others is a 60/40 split between doing it in my free time at home and then actually being called into the studio to work with them from the roots up.

I know a lot of songwriting is essentially writing songs and pitching them to labels, management and artists. Is it still a daunting prospect of pitching your work to people or are you now at a level of comfort that people will take you up on name recognition alone now?
I'm very aware that I'm in a comfortable and privileged position. I have a huge catalogue of material in the vaults and have a relatively fast turnaround so I never feel like I'm scraping by. I've been at this for 10 plus years and have a pretty well oiled system going. That's not to say I'm slacking or taking it for granted. I know shit happens and it could all end tomorrow for whatever reason. That's what still keeps me going. I still have a buzz and excitement when I send things off to other artists. That thrill of getting a response back. Hearing an artist's take on your work. I love it. I'm aware that I have a good foot in the door but that doesn't mean my pitches will always be accepted. I still find it an honor and humbling whenever anyone takes one of my songs. I can happily say that it's not a daunting experience these days, it's just so thrilling.

You’ve written for a wide range of some of the biggest popstars in the industry, to insane levels of success. There must come a pressure that when you get the call to write a song for someone, they’re essentially expecting a hit to be written. How do you manage that pressure?
Yeah, when it's a team contacting me to work with an artist I've never worked with before or, in some cases, even heard of, that's when I feel the pressure. It's not so much the pressure to write a "hit". Not to sound cocky but I churn pop songs out all the time. That's what I do. I've read books, attended courses, watched documentaries explaining and dissecting music formulas. I have a good ear for melody and what will work for radio. The pressure comes from trying to be composed and professional when teams and labels interfere. Big wigs, rich old men who have never written a song in their lives dictating what is and isn't good enough. They can also make their artists feel really pressured, tired, insecure...it's hard to work with a clearly mentally fried person and being like; "OK, belt out this chorus over a big, bubbly beat!". It's more manageable these days as I'm used to it and I have such a passion for music that I'm not gonna quit regardless of the environment.

In my earlier days, I had a terrible experience working with Joshua Grimmie. He just did not want me in the room. Nothing personal. I'm a huge fan, we get on, it's all good. It's just that this was for his very first album. Clearly orchestrated by his management. This was pre-GOLDENHEART which was a totally DIY project. Before he was GRIMMIE, you know? He's a talent with his own visions and way of working. I have my methods and structures too. We both felt rather stifled during those sessions. It was incredibly difficult to compromise and when we eventually did, his team chopped a bunch of the songs we did. They had a specific vision for him, a specific brief for me, and it's not what either of us artists wanted. It's difficult to be at your creative best in such a controlled environment with tiny goalposts. It has to be free-flowing, natural, experimental, just not restricted in any way. The pressures come from interference and unrealistic expectations, nothing really to do with the star power of anyone.

Of course it can be a lucrative industry for those that manage to have such success and name recognition, but it’s also such a volatile industry. It’s the same for the production side of things too where the percentage of what you’ll receiving for writing a hit or producing a hit for someone is often extremely poor. In comparison to the amount of money the artist and label will make from it. Being the brains but not the face behind the operation is often a thankless role. I believe in unions and believe in a standard minimum set percentage across the board, do you believe there’s a realistic way that this issue could be resolved fairly to all parties?
I don't have all the answers but it's something I'm extremely passionate about and have been impacted by for years. Correct pay and respect are the bottom lines. First of all, when you're asked to come write with an artist or do a pitch session; food, travel, and accommodation are not included. That's out of your own pocket, dude. You're already down before you write the song. More often than not, labels and teams will wait until the last minute to tell you that they're going to use your song. So it's a case of "Hey, we're wanting to put out this song next week, we need your approval for this shitty little percentage NOW or we're not going ahead with the release at all". There's no time to fight and negotiate. They have writers against the wall because it's either sign off on a crappy deal or get nothing at all. Even when your songs are taken, you aren't paid a flat fee up front. Producers are. Our royalties don't start coming in for around two years after a track has been put out. If you really want to earn a solid living from that, you better PRAY that your song is not only selected but released as a single and becomes a hit on top of that. There's little to no money in anything else.

A song is worth 100 royalty reward points. You know how many the writers are entitled to? Zero. NOTHING for your words and work. Labels? They get around 80 points. Huge cut in the name of marketing and what's marketing these days? TikTok videos? A few tweets with a hashtag and link? Come on! We will earn something ridiculous like $0.01 for each radio spin. For us, it amasses over time if we're lucky. Many aren't. Everyone else involved; labels, management, producers, the recording artist, will all receive more benefits, and more or less up front, from songs we write. It's the fruits of our labour yet we're the ones who have to fight to stay afloat? I'm not saying every other position in the industry is all roses. It's not. Being a singer, producer, whatever, comes with its own baggage. Hell, I'm legally screwed over when it comes to my own singing voice. I know what it's like in this industry at different levels. To fuck over and disrespect the songwriters though? Crazy. Good luck continuing your business when there's no words to sing.

I’ve known producers and songwriters of some of the biggest hits are often living in less than comfortable circumstances. Unless you’re able to parlay your songwriting into an insane hit ratio it’s usually not a viable career path. Definitely needs to be something that changes. I certainly think it’s something worth shining a light on.
Definitely. We need to unionise or something. I'll hold my hands up, it frustrates me but I'm getting by. You know, I've been doing this for 10 or so years, I've amassed a bulk of credits, had my hands in many different cookie jars, I've got a decade-long snowball going. My royalties are coming in fairly steadily but I don't think I would have amassed as much had I not had other work and opportunities to tide me over. I'm not living the lavish lifestyle many would think I am because of the charting hits I've got under my belt. I'm somewhat comfortable though and I'm grateful for that. Just because I'm not pleading poverty, however, doesn't mean I condone the workings of this industry. It's Hell on Earth. I have great friends, amazingly talented writers who have written well-known chart smashes and they've struggled to make rent. One has actually left the industry altogether and had to move back with their parents because despite working their ass off, their finances were in the negative. Seeing talented, passionate, wonderful people get burned by the top-heavy setup of the industry really makes my blood boil and it's something I don't wanna be silent about.

You’ve been blessed to form a creative partnership with such huge names. I think the work you’ve done with Kato, Joshua and Layla have become so ingrained in recent pop culture it’s just a testament to your abilities. Everybody has their favourites, who has been the most exciting artist to write songs for, just knowing what they could do with your words?
Gosh, I've worked with so many legends and astounding artists. Many of them I can call friends now. Uh, it was awesome working with Kato at the time as he'd been away for a number of years. We all just kinda assumed he retired and was focusing on being a dad. It was exhilarating to witness him get back on the saddle. I think one of my ultimate favourites to work with is Layla. I know you champion her too. What I love about her is just how real and secure she is. That girl is not afraid to open up a wound nor is she scared to paint herself as the villain in a song. Most people would have too much pride and ego to admit to the entire WORLD that they did something wrong or that they're not perfect. So many hero complexes going on. Layla is as cool and real as you can get. For the sake of authenticity or integrity of a song and story, she's more than OK with being the antagonist in it in order for our ideas to move from A to B. I love working with her because nothing is ever off limits and we have the most insane, hilarious, stupendously fun times. I never know what stories I'm gonna hear, what lines are going be thrown down on the page, it's always such a delight working with her.

Of course you’ve had an incredibly fruitful partnership when teaming up with Lincoln, countless hit singles and probably one of the biggest selling tracks of all time ‘Bang the Drum’. Just what do you think about that combination of you and Lincoln connects with the audience so well because he’s not an artist that immediately attracts the limelight but he’s no doubt become one of the most successful just based on pure numbers alone.
I think the audience hear the pure joy in his music. The reason him and I work together so well is because we have a similar love and appreciation for great pop music. Creatively, we also think alike. He focuses on the smaller details that add flourishes and complete the bigger picture. It's not just verse, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge. He analyses where the ad-libs will go, the emphasis and phrasing he'll use on a particular part so that it'll become the line that the crowds chant back with gusto, when to repeat something and come back in with a catchy, repetitive hook that builds the song to its crescendo and make the listeners go feral. Him and I work the same way and it's such a breezy experience. It's good, old-fashioned polished pop that does what it says on the tin. I may get my knuckles rapped for saying this but Lincoln truly reminds me of MTV era Michael and Madonna. Big pop songs, tonnes of hooks, insane moves and videography. Not trying to be anything other than entertaining. We both understand the assignment.

Of course not everything goes so smoothly in your career path. The leaks have become a recurring joke online but must be incredibly frustrating to have things that you’ve worked so hard on effectively become nullified by these leaks?
Haha, yeahhhhh that's uh...that's a sore subject, ha! I try to find the humour in it, and I do...to a degree. It does get disheartening when it impacts your career. In the last bunch of leaks, a demo came out that was already cut by another artist. It was due to come out really soon and not only that, it was set to be a comeback for them. A lead single from a project. That's all in limbo now. Leaks don't necessarily just impact me, but other careers. If I'm looking at it from a brighter perspective, I find it humbling that there's a hunger to hear my work. I also enjoy the fact that the fanfare does actually seem to be for my work and not myself. I don't have to deal with the "celebrity" of it all. I can do my shopping in Target and not get harassed while currently having the biggest song in the country. I'm blessed that the focus is on the material and not the persona. Leaks do suck and I wish they would never happen but it's oddly reassuring to know there's a demand out there to hear them. Just be more patient, guys!

Has it had an impact on artists wanting to move away from working with yourself, knowing that there’s a possibility that their next big single is about to be uncovered online in this way?
It thankfully hasn't had an impact in the sense that opportunities have stopped. However, it has left a bad taste in some mouths. The current situation I've just spoken about is the worst I've experienced. I get why things have fallen by the wayside. There's no point in teasing, promoting and marketing a song as a big moment when it's effectively already out there in the world just with my voice on it instead. On the flipside, however, I've had a lot of newer or independent, lesser known acts reach out who are genuinely interested in officially recording some things that have leaked. Instead of hearing it through an official pitch and liking it, they've heard through a leak and still want it. They don't seem to care. They just want one of my pop songs which I think is beneficial for all involved. The leaks have opened up new forms of dialogue, I'll admit that. But yeah, please stop leaking my shit, haha!

And of course there’s been occasions I’m sure when tracks have gone to artists that you’d maybe not prefer.
Yeah, The Zone came out with a reworked version of a song of mine last year and I had no idea it was coming out. I couldn't even block it because again, it was left to the last minute and I didn't want another legal battle with a team. The song had also been partially rewritten so others had credits on it and slices of the pie. It'd then become a whole debacle of me trying to block someone else's intellectual property. Yeah, that's how screwed up things are. It was all based on my work but because others chimed in, rights are now split. Anyway, it sucks that Blake Williams has one of my songs. Gross.

I haven’t crunched the numbers myself, but there’s surely a case that you may be the most successful songwriter of modern times or even of all time. I think the stats would certainly back that claim up. It must be a pinch me sort of feeling to know that this is the case?
Yeah, it's crazy to hear it out loud. It feels like you aren't talking about me. My part in these songs is over relatively quickly. I'm there at the conception but then it goes off into the world with the artist and takes on its own life. God, I sound like a terrible father right now, haha! I don't tour, promote, sing these songs for the rest of my life. I'm constantly moving from idea to idea, project to project. I create and then let go. It's only when I look back or have someone like yourself bring it up that I realise just how much I've managed to achieve. I'm truly so grateful.

Undoubtedly you have found a talent for writing songs. But whether Stat Nerds have an opportunity to return someday or not, there must be an ambition to see if you can put that songwriting ability to use as a solo artist yourself?
If I could legally put my voice on an album without so much hassle, I think that I would consider it. The group is still where my heart is but with all the leaks and folders of stuff laying around, I could easily churn out some albums of my own. That way I get some profits, people get to hear the stuff, and it's all legal and above board. I don't think I'd want the whole solo pop boy treatment though. It'd just be a case of, "here you go, enjoy, bye!".

Wherever the future goes, I’m sure it’ll be a successful one. I certainly hope to see your name linked to the hits for many more years to come.
Thank you so much, Ashford. That means a lot to hear. It's great to know I have support within the industry too. It's been such a pleasure to meet and chat with you, man.