The grace of the Lord Ganondorf King of Hyrule be with you all. Amen.

What's the difference? One is believed, without evidence, by billions, the other is believed, without evidence, by no-one. Neither is more empirically true, simply weight of belief. The more people who believe something the more true it is?

The basic flaw in this whole argument is that if you do believe then you are blind to criticism, to answering difficult questions, instead taking the stance that "oh well, I don't know the answer, but God must know the answer so I'll just stick by him." Well, I'm not sticking by a God who's so fucking vain and narcassistic that gives humans a life on Earth and free will, and then asks that hey forgo that free will and follow his exact word, to spend our time worshipping him, praising him for the gift he has given us instead of using that gift for ourselves. Why would a benevolent God care if little people loved him and accepted him? And why put people through the test? Why not just make Earth heaven and have everyone born into peace and harmony, and not allow for evil? And don't give me "you don't understand," tell me why I don't understand, tell me exactly what it is that explains why God acts like a needy teenage girl craving attention. If I were given a contract to sign before birth that stated "You will be born into life, and as long as you live it well in worship and acceptance of ME, then I will let you into HEAVEN because earth is actually a bit shit," then I would certainly not have signed up. I would hold God accountable for the acts he admits to in the Bible, failure to deliver his word in a non-contradictory sense for all mankind to read (if it didn't contradict itself there would only be one Christain Church, not THOUSANDS), for his oppression of women, his gift of free will which he kindly asks us not to take advantage of, and I would judge him to be a genocidal, incompetent, narcissistic, neurotic, attention-seeking asshole not worthy of his position or my respect let alone worship.

So to summarise, my question is, why would a truly benevolent God, who loves everyone, care if people, to whom he has given free will, choose not to use it in worship and praise of him so much that he will punish them for all eternity for this? That's like giving someone a pair of socks for their birthday on the expectation that they will call and thank you every time they wear the things, or else you'll never given them another present ever again.

Holy fuck there's a lot of crazy to comment on.

OK. I errrr can't believe you are trying to justify institutionalised bigotry and sexism. And it's funny, because most churches these days don't. They just ignore this stuff. I mean the Anglican Communion has many women bishops. So they aren't merely talking in church, they are acting as the go-between between God and the people! The fact that they just plain ignore stuff is one of the many gaping holes in the Bible.


This is seriously questionable logic. So the bible is history and you can only understand by going to church? Why? What's so special with this specific branch of "history"? I mean I don't need to be in a church to understand books on the Scottish Wars Of Independence, the Industrial Revolution or any other topic I've ever read up on. It has the same effect to me whether I am sat in a library, a bus or on the toilet, reading while pooing. If the Bible is genuinely a historical record (which of course it isn't, many historians have poked lots of holes in it, geologists have long since proven the great flood never happened, etc) then it should be able to be read as such.


Wuh? This is certainly not true in any of the Bibles I have read, which includes the King James, The Good News, Gideons and countless others. And I'm sorry but God is supposed to be infallible. So how could he make mistakes that need to be corrected? He's omniscient!


Buh? AIDS is a disease. Caused by a virus called HIV. Which does not have free will. Is not capable of having free will. Because it is a self-replicating strand of RNA, it has no form of conciousness. And this is an...interesting theological argument. God does not have control over nature? Is Mother Nature God's missus? Because that's certainly not something I've ever heard claimed by...anyone in the realms of Christiendom, not in the last several hundred years, if ever. Elaborate because this is thoroughly ridiculous.

That doesn't make sense. There's a whole list of reasons why religions came about, and then they became monothiestic. Power being one of them, social structures another, it's not merely filling in the blanks that science could not, though that is one. But I don't why that is the reason "anything in the bible is a piece of shit".

Frankly I think your gross-oversimplification does believers a disservice.

You know, I never understand how believers are all so confident that their belief system is the right one. It's massively arrogant. How does one pick between Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism and lord knows however much else.

Thats why I said to leave it alone, those who belelieve wont change, and those who dont, wont either.

This is false. Plenty people of change. A post on this forum will not change someone completely. It may however encourage them to question the information they treat as established, which could be one in a series of steps towards free-thinking.

True, but I just figured it would be easier to just let it go and move on to a new subject matter.

I preferred this thread when it was about wanking.

No, because the bible is there, for those you claim God doesn't exist, they can still see if he loves us or not, because the bible is there. But if you don't know anything about the bible or use quotes from it without looking further in to it, you have no reason to discuss here. Because that's not the point of the thread in the first place.

That's why I've come with the decision to go any further since, its going to be a circle.
No type of agreemnet is going to be made so what is the point.

That's why we should drop it, which you now seem to have trouble doing.

Why? Just because you won't change your opinions at all and your just going to sit there being childish and refuse everything that's thrown at you without questioning anything ever. In fact even if you don't change your stance on religeon debates like this should open your eyes to question the world a little more which is no bad thing :)

I didn't change my opinion from your answers because they are the same old excuses religions have pumped out over the years. However, the thing I posted earlier about the best argument I've ever heard, that changed my opinion slightly and I struggled to come up with a reasonable argument against it aside from the fact I don't believe it.