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Offline TheCDs  
#1 Posted : 21 February 2010 09:25:22(UTC)
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We haven't had a good debate here in a while so I got one that I think has been talked about before but is something I would like to discuss again.

What is music?

Is me tapping on my desk music. Is random ambient noise music? Does music mean melody, and if so what is melody? Is "bad music" not actually music at all by virtue of lacking qualities of music (therefore making it "bad music")?

It is something I have to think about a little more but I wanted to get the ball rolling.
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Tim Dunn- Production/Guitars/Bass/Drums/Saxophone/Vocals
Offline The Nimrods  
#2 Posted : 21 February 2010 09:32:31(UTC)
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Any noise can be music in my opinion.I never say something is just noise, I'll dislike it but the first time I listened to death metal and didn't like it I didn't say "What is this it isn't music".Asking what music is is an extremely broad topic and hard to anwer, I think you're trying to sound smart haha.
The Nimrods (Progressive Death Metal,Progressive Metal,Progressive Rock.Think Opeth/Dream Theater/Tool/Pink Floyd)
Jimmy Him- Lead Guitar,Vocals,Primary Songwriter
Davey Matlock- Bass,Guitars,Vocals,Primary Songwriter
Kit Saunders- Drums,additional percussion
Jaska Latvala- Rhythm Guitar,Vocals,Primary Songwriter
Jack Burton- Keyboards,Keytar

Satyr in the Frost(Melodic Black Metal,think Satyricon/Mayhem/Early Dimmu Borgir/Immortal)
Sigmund-Vocals and Rhythm guitar
Celt-Drums
Saxon-Lead Guitar
Sauron-Keyboard
Gris-Bass
Rincewind wrote:
The Nimrods wrote:
I knew you'd be back! *cries*


now now, *hugs and steals wallet*

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Oops I stumbled over and hit the "extend ban" button.

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Gildermershina wrote:
The Nimrods wrote:
xNightsidex wrote:
Sooo...

What's everyone else do in the real world?


Sell pot and jerk off

JK, or am i?


At the same time?


Rincewind wrote:
Synxhard wrote:
I don't believe in jeans...


well your shit out of luck because they believe in you.....

User is suspended until 11/08/2288 11:47:34(UTC) Greenleaf  
#3 Posted : 21 February 2010 09:35:24(UTC)
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There's no need for debate when you have a clear definition.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/music+

(Lol, just kidding)


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YES I am.......
Offline Gildermershina  
#4 Posted : 21 February 2010 09:52:57(UTC)
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In my mind, music is sound with intent. In that way, even something like an electric fence hum, which on its own is not music, once captured, it becomes music. It's basically a linear medium that exists only by virtue of time. "Traditionally" you've got melody, harmony, rhythm, those basic building blocks of music, but since these musical languages are derived by a number of human mathematical formulae, there's no reason these traditional systems need be the only languages available.

After all, in standard western music, you've only got eight notes in a scale, and only 12 chromatic notes. Pitches like Cb or E# are out of reach. In other musical systems though, there are many additional pitches. Notes between our notes; microtones. And that's just melody. Western music is even more stilted when it comes to rhythm. Almost everything popular is in 4/4. Sure you get 5/4s and 3/4s and 6/8s from time to time, but where's 6/7? We don't really have a way to properly define odd note divisions, except by their relation to an existing even number division (ie. triplets are 3 evenly divided notes in the space of 2 even notes). There are plausible practical and cultural reasons for all of this of course, but that doesn't mean we must be slaves to these systems, especially now that computers are suitably advanced.

So yeah, I guess what I'm getting at is that most people have a horrendously narrow view of music.
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Offline Rincewind  
#5 Posted : 21 February 2010 23:49:35(UTC)
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music is something that stirs the soul.... in a undescribable way... Different things move different people, which is why music is so fluid... from techno, to classical, to african throat singing....
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline Mt. Epic  
#6 Posted : 22 February 2010 04:48:52(UTC)
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Any sound is music, but a good, appealing sound is a good, appealing music and vice versa.
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Fuck yo punk ass! Da BBC Kingz gon' getchu!
Offline Gildermershina  
#7 Posted : 22 February 2010 06:28:37(UTC)
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There was this cool experiment a while ago, taking 500 people's choices for most wanted elements and most unwanted elements in music, and then two songs were made, The Most Wanted Music, which was a dull-as-fuck auto-tuned adult contemporary monstrosity, and The Most Unwanted Music (click to listen) which is a weird-ass 22 minute cowboy rap opera with bagpipes and ad jingles for wal-mart sung by children's choirs, and IT IS AWESOME.

Just goes to show you, what people want, invariably sucks.

Edited by user 22 February 2010 06:31:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Laurelles1  
#8 Posted : 22 February 2010 07:13:17(UTC)
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The opera rapping just made it.
Awards (stroking myself and thinking I'm superior):
@Chaos awards:
Best Band - Mind
Best Album - Shattered Fairytale by Mind
Technical Ecstasy - Jason Smith (x3)
Best Solo Male - Jason Smith
Birdies:
Best Producer - Jason Smith

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Offline bvgf  
#9 Posted : 27 February 2010 21:37:53(UTC)
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"You just pick a chord,go TWANG and you,ve got music" -Sid Vicious
Offline TheCDs  
#10 Posted : 23 March 2010 09:43:31(UTC)
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So I was doing some reading and I came across a reference to John Cage, an experimental composer. At any rate I had forgotten about him and his experiments until now, specifically 4'33". For those unfamiliar with the piece, 4'33" is a four minute thirty-three second piece composed of three movements and written for any number and combination of instruments. The piece itself instructs the performers to not play a single note, the "music" being the sounds and noises that occur in the concert hall/venue.

Is that music?

Can an audience who is unaware of what is going on create music by simply making sounds, such as getting up and leaving?

Cage presents the idea that sound is itself music regardless of intent. I don't know if I agree with him completely on this but I can see some merit in his ideology.

I spent some time while writing this post with my windows open and listening to the sounds of my apartment, the apartments around me, the birds, and so forth. I could never say I felt I was listening to music, but there was a certain soothing element to the everyday sounds. The chirping birds, the hum of a refrigerator, people walking down the hallway, they all had a strange calming effect. If music is defined as sound that elicits some emotional response then surely I was listening to music.

This is a topic I love discussing because I love to really think about and try to grasp the idea of sound, noise, and music. What makes them different, the same, related, and unrelated?
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Offline Gildermershina  
#11 Posted : 23 March 2010 10:12:12(UTC)
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TheCDs wrote:
So I was doing some reading and I came across a reference to John Cage, an experimental composer. At any rate I had forgotten about him and his experiments until now, specifically 4'33". For those unfamiliar with the piece, 4'33" is a four minute thirty-three second piece composed of three movements and written for any number and combination of instruments. The piece itself instructs the performers to not play a single note, the "music" being the sounds and noises that occur in the concert hall/venue.

Is that music?

Can an audience who is unaware of what is going on create music by simply making sounds, such as getting up and leaving?

Cage presents the idea that sound is itself music regardless of intent. I don't know if I agree with him completely on this but I can see some merit in his ideology.

I spent some time while writing this post with my windows open and listening to the sounds of my apartment, the apartments around me, the birds, and so forth. I could never say I felt I was listening to music, but there was a certain soothing element to the everyday sounds. The chirping birds, the hum of a refrigerator, people walking down the hallway, they all had a strange calming effect. If music is defined as sound that elicits some emotional response then surely I was listening to music.

This is a topic I love discussing because I love to really think about and try to grasp the idea of sound, noise, and music. What makes them different, the same, related, and unrelated?


It's a simple thing as far as I'm concerned. If somebody presents something as art, or as music, then it is. Of course, it is down to an observer, a listener, to formulate a response. I think it's entirely valid to crumple up a piece of paper, throw it in the middle of a room and call it a piece of art. The issue I think is one of depth of expression, which is in itself a tricky thing to define because it's so subjective.

I do not think environmental sounds are "music" unless presented as such. There is a kind of musical sense to nature, since music is defined by natural law and inspired by the world around us, but as far as I understand it, music requires some level of intent, whether that is in complex scores for multiple instruments or in the case of Cage's 4'33", introducing a framing structure to unpredictable sounds. After all, the fact that there are musicians, that there is an audience, that there is an event in which the two interact, that is the framing device for any piece of music. If you remove the audience, if you remove the musicians (or musical source), then it fails as a medium.

But provided you have these three elements, the audience, the musical source, and then event itself (often simply the act of listening) it becomes music. You could decide to listen to birdsong as music. Then it is music. But otherwise, it is just sound.

Although I should point out that there is a difference between let's say, listening to speech and listening to music. The same elements are there, but rather than focussing on the rhythm, the melody, the tonal qualities of the sound, you are primarily interested in the meaning of the words, and the musical qualities of the voice are secondary, inflecting and modulating.
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Offline jagg3r  
#12 Posted : 26 March 2010 08:33:37(UTC)
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Cage never actually said that 4'33 was music, he just asked the question if it was. Music is a form of art so if I slam my hand on the table, even with these three elements, it cannot be music as, in my opinion, it is not art, and it is only sound.

I also disagree with the idea of an audience being there, but I suppose that that comes under the old "if a tree falls and noone is there, does it make a sound?" thing. But surely if I play a song on my guitar yet noone else is there, it is music, no?

So I guess I agree with one of the earlier posts that it is such a broad question, as it also must ask the question "What is Art?"
Offline Gildermershina  
#13 Posted : 26 March 2010 22:13:24(UTC)
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jagg3r wrote:
Cage never actually said that 4'33 was music, he just asked the question if it was. Music is a form of art so if I slam my hand on the table, even with these three elements, it cannot be music as, in my opinion, it is not art, and it is only sound.

I also disagree with the idea of an audience being there, but I suppose that that comes under the old "if a tree falls and noone is there, does it make a sound?" thing. But surely if I play a song on my guitar yet noone else is there, it is music, no?

So I guess I agree with one of the earlier posts that it is such a broad question, as it also must ask the question "What is Art?"


If you play your guitar alone, YOU are the audience.

Also, I think slamming your hand on a table could be part of an artistic performance - if not a musical performance (unless the table has a specific desired tone when you slam it). I can't imagine many situations in which that would have any merit, but then I don't see any situation where Tracey Emin's unmade bed has any merit. Perhaps when you slam the table, a bunch of stuff falls off it and the stuff tells a story, as well as the actual act of slamming it expressing frustration and anger.
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Offline troy211619  
#14 Posted : 26 March 2010 22:19:06(UTC)
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Music is an art form whose medium is sound, incase you don't know what sound is....
Sound is a travelling wave which is an oscillation of pressure transmitted through a solid, liquid, or gas, composed of frequencies within the range of hearing and of a level sufficiently strong to be heard, or the sensation stimulated in organs of hearing by such vibrations...
That explains it I guess...
END OF DEBATE
hehe
zicon wrote:
So what is Role Play all about, Imagination?


Aj wrote:
I don't dislike pop, I dislike bad music.

Liam


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