So take a step back from your views on the world. Everything you love, have loved, hate and have hated are gone. Every emotion is gone from your body. Now, think on this...

What if their right? What if the terrorists - Al Queda, IRA, whichever one you want - what if they are in fact on the good side, and we are the bad? Who's to say there not? The only reason we believe that we're right is that the majority believes it. It's simple bully tactics - if something's going against the way that the majority want to go, and it's harming the majority, then the majority are obviously going to push the minority out. There are two sides of every coin, and I have a firm belief that you should look at things from every angle before making a decision upon it.

Let's not forget, the British and American's used to catch people from Africa and sell them? We used to stick them in shitty little boats full of their own piss and shit and if they fell ill, simply through them overboard and drown them. No one's perfect, and this is where my argument against patriotism comes in.

If you get to the point where the bully tactics been succsessful, and the minority has been thrown out of the group, then you get the stage of patriotism. The majority clump together and believe that they are all 'one', and that they (the majority) are obviously right, because 'we're the goodies'. Because people are so proud of their nation, they are blind to the opposition and will willingly attack them in defence of 'the mothership'. Like ant's or wasps and bees.

And so, with this all in mind, my opinion is that patriotism is indeed a bad and dangerous thing, however pride in your people is only natural. Extremism, therefore, is only patriotism in something different from what the majority believes. Al-Queda, I dare say, are very proud of what they do, and believe that they are standing up for what is right. If you had the chance, would you blow yourself up, taking a load of Al-Queda with you if you believed that it would guarentee you and your family a good place in heaven? Now obviously if your aethiest you may find that a hard concept to comprehend, but if you really believed there was something 'after' that went on forever, I think anyone would.

Now you can step back into your views of the world, and accuse me of being a terrorist :P

But seriously, I have really strong opinions on patriotism and such. I could ramble on for HOURS. However, this by no means means I believe that Al-Queda are right, I was simply using them as a point maker.

Opinions on this philosophy? Basically, just post your philosophy (if you have one) on patriotism.

It did remind me of it yeah.

I do find the concept of altruism confusing at times.

its an interesting point...

Even though i am English... Yes i can see that the IRA had a legitimate point of view (ie the English have no right to rule in Ireland). However i do think the way they went about putting their viewpoint across negated all this... Not to mention the fact that they then became the Irish Mafia..
Also i know this is nit picking but it was the Africans who caught each other and sold themselves into slavery to Europeans.. Also 38.5% of slaves went to Brazil and another 17.5% went to the Spanish Empire (Stephen D. Behrendt, David Richardson, and David Eltis, W. E. B. Du Bois Institute for African and African-American Research, Harvard University)... Not to mention the Dutch and French..
The British were also one of the first nations to abolish the slave trade and even went so far as to set up a sea squadron to prevent the sad trade... interestingly between 1807 and 1860 we stopped 1,600 ships involved in the slave trade and freed 150,000 Africans who were aboard these vessels (Sailing against slavery. By Jo Loosemore), And it was basically down t British political pressure and man power that did eventual bring about the end of the Slave trade.. Just something to be proud of there... :)

And something i have just found out... the last slave imported into America died in 1935 and was called Cudjoe Lewis.
sorry that was just a bit of my patriotism shining through... oh the irony!!!
In a way its sill being proud of the country you were born in... Its no real achievement being born in one place rather than another. After all you had no say in it.

I agree, plus, even if there was evil and good, how would you determine it? Would it be some guy saying I'm doing the right thing, because I don't think the other guy would agree.

I have always lived in Scotland, but I don't really identify myself with Scottish culture or history particularly.

I don't take sides, nor do I honestly agree with anything that isn't what I believe 100%. I'd say anyone is entitled to their right of will, action, and belief, they just don't have the right to get anyone who isn't involved, included in their "war". So in short, extremists and patriots should only attack who decides to attack them, if they start getting others involved, blow the shit out of both of them. My opinion on it all is, fuck... I never did anything to or with you, so don't involve me in this shit or you're getting a cap in your skull one day. If anyone doesn't agree, I'm fine with that.

Edited by user 01 August 2009 02:43:31(UTC)  | Reason: clarity

Can you clarify this for me please?

I mean, war isn't really like soccer or basketball, you support the side who you agree with morally as opposed to the one who actually won. If I was alive in the 1930s I'd have supported the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, and they ended up losing and Spain fell into 40 years of fascism under General Franco.

Although I'd argue that just supporting whoever wins in sports is also stupid.

You don't want to start me off on another militant athiest rant! :)

Essentially, I still want you to clarify this in a way that means something to me.

Okay, for you I'll clarify it. Let's see. Oh I know. No wait, that won't work. Oh I got it. Let's say you are playing Warcraft, you always like using this clan over and over again, but the rest you don't like. And let's say that you play online, and then you are teamed up by people who have a clan that have an advantage over your best soldier, and you still use that soldier, because you say that your clan is the best, and you're not going to play another. You have absolutely little odds of winning in the first place, and now you made it worse by still going headstrong with a tactic which is bound to fail but your pride is too great. Something like that. It was hard to plan this out. phew