Well without wanting to particularly turn this into a philosophical or theological debate (well, that's a lie. I love debates on philosophy, it's a passion of mine), you are right. If you are gay and remain celibate your whole life, God really doesn't have a problem. But you can't have sex outside marriage, that's breaking one of the 10 commandments on adultery, and the bibles position on sodomy is pretty clear as well I think. Even if you take the story of Sodom & Gomorrah for an allegory the message is still clear enough. Better to let your daughters be raped by men than two strangers because sodomy is a serious sin. Leviticus is also clear on this topic, as is St Paul in Romas, I Corinthians & I Timothy.

Just to be clear, I find that viewpoint to be antiquated and abhorent, but that's the thing with Holy Books, they tend not to evolve with the times, despite society evolving constantly.

Bikz, lets not be silly here and try to revise history: Christianity has long been associated with rampant homophobia.

Mt. Epic, if you are an actual athiest then saying "it's all mostly karma" is stupid because karma is an eastern religious concept that appears in Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism among others. Talking as one athiest to another: there is no karma. So lets not be silly. As far back as 50AD & the Council of Jerusalem, St John Chrysostom, made Archbishop of Constantinople, the second city in Christendom, in 398 argued that homosexuality was a worse sin than murder! "But nothing can there be more worthless than a man who has pandered himself. For not the soul only, but the body also of one who hath been so treated, is disgraced, and deserves to be driven out everywhere." Plenty examples of Christian Roman Emperors having homosexuals executed, like Constantius II & Valentinian II, both emperors during the 4th century who denounced men who were found to be "acting the part of a woman".

The leading theologian of the middle ages, Thomas Aquinas, regarded homosexuality as a sin and all sins to be unnatural.

It's only been in the modern era where you have had any number of Christians who are actually tolerable of homosexuality so to try and claim that "God hates fags" is a recent movement, well yes, that's true up to a point, the Westboro Baptist Church was formed in the 1960s or 70s. But Christianity's intolerance to homosexuality goes right back to the very start.

Oh and the idea that people can stop being gay is really pretty stupid and offensive and shows absolutely no understanding of human sexuality and psychology whatsoever. Yeah, you can repress your sexual urges and not act on them but there is no way to stop you being attracted to whatever the fuck you are sexually attracted to. And sexual repression can lead to pretty nasty things, see for example Catholic Priests and small children.

I dunno, most of all I just find it pretty weird that people embrace a religion that hates them. I mean I know that I can beat myself up and hate myself plenty without needing outside interference, I don't need the extra guilt for things that aren't worth being guilty for. It's just so strange to me.

I'm interested Daniel, which church are you actually a member of? Is it the catholic church (I'm making a big presumption here on you having Puerto Rican roots here)? Or is it one of the more evangelical protestant groups?

Edited by user 03 December 2009 14:13:12(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Like I said before I do not church because I choose to not be a hypocrite. But I will eventually and repend.
I am NOT catholic. I do repsect anyone's religion though, but I can't stand the stereotype that just because someone is Puerto Rican they are catholic. Most of the Puerto Ricans I know from San Juan and over here are Christian. My mo does not classify herself, she just goes by what the holy bible reads. She's very strict with it. And she know the bible very well.

People on here who are gay and have been all their life with acceptance don't see how hard it is to come out in such an older age. Its almost impossible. I told my mom and I still feel awkward. When I went to the recording studio, people judged me for my some what "Gay" voice. I deal with this on a daily basis and I just realized its not worth it. That's why I want to be straight not Bisexual.

Yes, it was me or my alter ego, and asdfism is by far the best branch of Christianity.

I never shoot down people's beliefs so personally.

But I call the ridiculous card.

Um, that's why I said If I got back to church I know I will be a hypocrite. I'm not trying to take advantage of the way Christianity works. That will be considered horrible sinning. But I am human and I myself need some time before I go an repent though. Once I do it, I'll start all over. And I'll begin dating women and eventually have kids when I'm married and on and on. Anyway, it says in the bible that God rather you not be a hypocrite while you are at church. That's why many times I hold my tongue when people on here talk about Christianity, because what am I doing that is so Christian for me to say anything in the first place. But once I repent, its whole different story.

Um. We? Do you mean you and them. I'm pretty sure the pastor isn't.
And no its not, I'm forcing my self not to sin, and I do find women attractive (I'm bisexual), I also would love to have kids. Its not hypocrisy.

it's semi hypocrisy because you are living a lie, even though you want to change it. But it's also a bit disciplinary since you are forcing yourself to change.

yeah, that's kinda what I covered in the post above yours -_-

Nah, it all cool.

I don't feel like I am forcing myself at all. It feels right to me and I plan on going to heaven. I do find women and men attractive, but If I have to give up liking men, then so be it. Gay men in my area are assholes anyway. All they want is sex. I've realized that I am not a woman in a man's body. I am just very sentimental and emotional simply because I was raised by a single mom and I had to take care of kids while growing up. It had an effect on me. I found an attraction to men because I guess I felt like I needed a man to support me.

Anyway, the fact is that I am Christian, no matter on how much you talk bout our God he will always have mercy on you. Salvation is individual so its your choice if you don't want to listen to his word. I remember as a child feeling the holy spirit and I will never forget that feeling. It has been proven to me many times that word of God is correct. His definition of love is much different than ours and only he knows 100% why he did what he did.

Anyway I am now meeting up with women and I am having a blast. It shocks them that I can understand them so well and I find that fascinating.