forkboy wrote:But then you go and say that this god has interfered in human life since then, or in life on other planets and so on, and then you lose me because there is utterly no proof that the laws of physics (which can account for asteroids hitting planets) or the meterology of this planet which can account for the existance of ice ages, and a combination of varying factors which are responisble for ELEs and so forth changed in order to . The reason they happened is because the fundamental mathematical laws of the universe don't change. If someone sat in a bubble 4.5 billion years ago and watched the solar system form they could have with enough time and a decent understanding in physics and enough observations of asteroids, and exact measurements of the composition of the earths atmosphere and so forth they would be able to predict them occuring, much like with enough data we can predict accurately when a Venusian transit of the sun will occur. The basic fundamental laws do not change.
Yes, determinism.
A pet hate of mine is how people use the word random so glibly. Random has to be reserved for something beyond predictions by the human mind. Strictly speaking nothing is random because everything obeys rules, but as long as it is outwith human perception it can be described as random. But humour is not random. Sometimes something is funny for reasons beyond our understanding, but the fact that you thought of it in your brain means you're at least following some instinctual knowledge of the laws of humour - juxtaposition of opposing elements or whatever.
Anyway, to bring this back on topic, I think this applies to any notion of God. A higher power, that is larger than the systems which govern the universe, systems which on some level tend towards intelligent life, are inevitably unknowable by anything within those systems. If you look at string theory, an overlapping four dimensional universe is described as being imperceptible and inconceivable in the same way that a 2-dimensional being would not be able to look outward into a third dimension, so any objects would simply appear as straight lines of 0 width. Interestingly enough, a 2 dimensional being would also have to have a 2 way digestive system because a 1 way system would go all the way through the creature's body dividing it into two. But we can read 2 dimensional information, in the same way a 4 dimensional being in a 4 dimensional universe would be able to read 3 dimensional information.
So if there is a consciousness with intent, of any description, that exists beyond the confines of our universe (as it would have to in order to create this universe), it's entirely possible, even likely, that no being in this universe could ever even begin to comprehend the nature of it.
As for whether consciousness itself is a function of this higher power, whether the "spark" of life is an additional external force, well, maybe that means we're all connected to this higher power in some way.
As for the Christian God, I look at it this way: if the Bible weren't the official text of the Christian Church, they'd ban it for its depiction of extreme violence, genocide, rape, murder, torture, not to mention all the pagan rituals and supernatural elements like resurrection and miraculous healing. The Bible is only given the weight it's given because it's so old, and has become so ingrained in western culture. When you actually read it objectively and without agenda, God seems like a tyrannical dickhead using
"do what I say not what I do" as an excuse for behaviour which would apparently grant us poor humans a ticket to hell. Not to mention the ridiculous U-turn he takes in the New Testament. It surprises me that people haven't surmised that the two are not only different Gods, but that perhaps one of them is the Devil in disguise tempting mankind away from the true path with a less strict doctrine.
Also, a tin teardrop.
