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Offline Mt. Epic  
#21 Posted : 07 November 2009 07:56:25(UTC)
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Gemma375* wrote:
Mt. Epic wrote:
Yep, that's right. They are releasing yet another album by the grunge gods (which really means nothing) called Nirvana:Live at Reading, which is a live recording of their Reading performance (hence the name) many millions of years ago. This is just pissing me off. I'm not much of a Nirvana fan, but I'm just saying that the band has been dead for almost two decades now. They have already released like twenty box sets, digged up some shitty demos to release, and have fucked up their compilations of greatest songs about a million times now. I mean, those guys had only one hit, and a couple of other moderately successful songs. I mean cmon! They only had three studio albums! Why do you need a billion box sets! Their album Nevermind, sold roughly 16 million copies worldwide. Okay I understand that is a successful album. But the follow-up, In Utero, sold only about 1/3 of that that. 5 million copies, yeah that's a good number, but not worth to have parades and fireworks go off at every major city in the world just to show that BAM!!! These guys went 5x platinum! Coldplay's first album Parachutes, if I'm not mistaken, sold about that amount, and the band wasn't considered to be amazing until "Viva La Vida" was released, and before had already had many other fairly big hits. I have the balls to call them one-hit wonders! "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is the only song people can recognize. Other smaller songs have SOME fame, but not enough to be considered monster hits. "Heart-Shaped Box", almost nobody heard of until Rock Band. Everything else had fairly moderate success. So I don't understand the big hype. Is it because they were the first breakthrough Grunge act? Is it because of Kurt Cobain's and Courtney Love's relationship? I mean, Dave Grohl has separated himself from the whole grunge thing in three albums, and could've been the first if only Foo Fighters were more organized from the start. So all I gotta say is: Cmon People!



The entire thing with Nirvana wasn't about how many records they sold, it was about the effect their music had, and is still having, on the people that did hear it. It really pisses me off when people use sales figures to talk about how good a piece of music is meant to be. I mean, Cheryl Cole has the #1 album and single in the UK at the moment... wow, it must sure be a classic...
A good album is something that connects with its target audience - regardless of size - and makes them feel emotions that others can't. Some of the best albums of all time, in my opinion, have been albums that have been well ahead of their time - thought of as a bit of a failure at the time and its only decades later that people discover just how great the music actually was.
Music doesn't die just because the lead singer does...


Yes, I completely agree with that. But my point is why is there 20 different box sets/compilations from only 3 studio albums?
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Offline forkboy  
#22 Posted : 07 November 2009 08:02:01(UTC)
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Because there's a market for it. Do you need the music biz to be explained to you?
Offline Mt. Epic  
#23 Posted : 07 November 2009 08:11:08(UTC)
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forkboy wrote:
Because there's a market for it. Do you need the music biz to be explained to you?


I understand that it's profitable, but couldn't they be making more money by getting some little kids to sing for them than to waste time compiling tons of box sets that only true Nirvana fans would've heard about?
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Offline forkboy  
#24 Posted : 07 November 2009 08:21:41(UTC)
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Mt. Epic wrote:
forkboy wrote:
Because there's a market for it. Do you need the music biz to be explained to you?


I understand that it's profitable, but couldn't they be making more money by getting some little kids to sing for them than to waste time compiling tons of box sets that only true Nirvana fans would've heard about?

Well clearly not. Because there's alot of "true" (wtf?) Nirvana fans out there, as opposed to fans of "little kids singing to them" (again, wtf?).
Offline Mt. Epic  
#25 Posted : 07 November 2009 08:23:03(UTC)
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forkboy wrote:
Mt. Epic wrote:
forkboy wrote:
Because there's a market for it. Do you need the music biz to be explained to you?


I understand that it's profitable, but couldn't they be making more money by getting some little kids to sing for them than to waste time compiling tons of box sets that only true Nirvana fans would've heard about?

Well clearly not. Because there's alot of "true" (wtf?) Nirvana fans out there, as opposed to fans of "little kids singing to them" (again, wtf?).


And that's why half the people at my school have no idea who Nirvana are yet everyone knows Justin Bieber, who is a new artist btw.
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Offline Gildermershina  
#26 Posted : 07 November 2009 08:24:59(UTC)
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Mt. Epic wrote:
Gemma375* wrote:
Mt. Epic wrote:
Yep, that's right. They are releasing yet another album by the grunge gods (which really means nothing) called Nirvana:Live at Reading, which is a live recording of their Reading performance (hence the name) many millions of years ago. This is just pissing me off. I'm not much of a Nirvana fan, but I'm just saying that the band has been dead for almost two decades now. They have already released like twenty box sets, digged up some shitty demos to release, and have fucked up their compilations of greatest songs about a million times now. I mean, those guys had only one hit, and a couple of other moderately successful songs. I mean cmon! They only had three studio albums! Why do you need a billion box sets! Their album Nevermind, sold roughly 16 million copies worldwide. Okay I understand that is a successful album. But the follow-up, In Utero, sold only about 1/3 of that that. 5 million copies, yeah that's a good number, but not worth to have parades and fireworks go off at every major city in the world just to show that BAM!!! These guys went 5x platinum! Coldplay's first album Parachutes, if I'm not mistaken, sold about that amount, and the band wasn't considered to be amazing until "Viva La Vida" was released, and before had already had many other fairly big hits. I have the balls to call them one-hit wonders! "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is the only song people can recognize. Other smaller songs have SOME fame, but not enough to be considered monster hits. "Heart-Shaped Box", almost nobody heard of until Rock Band. Everything else had fairly moderate success. So I don't understand the big hype. Is it because they were the first breakthrough Grunge act? Is it because of Kurt Cobain's and Courtney Love's relationship? I mean, Dave Grohl has separated himself from the whole grunge thing in three albums, and could've been the first if only Foo Fighters were more organized from the start. So all I gotta say is: Cmon People!



The entire thing with Nirvana wasn't about how many records they sold, it was about the effect their music had, and is still having, on the people that did hear it. It really pisses me off when people use sales figures to talk about how good a piece of music is meant to be. I mean, Cheryl Cole has the #1 album and single in the UK at the moment... wow, it must sure be a classic...
A good album is something that connects with its target audience - regardless of size - and makes them feel emotions that others can't. Some of the best albums of all time, in my opinion, have been albums that have been well ahead of their time - thought of as a bit of a failure at the time and its only decades later that people discover just how great the music actually was.
Music doesn't die just because the lead singer does...


Yes, I completely agree with that. But my point is why is there 20 different box sets/compilations from only 3 studio albums?


Certainly it's ridiculous that there's been so much exploitation of the band's name since Cobain's death, but the fact is that Nirvana still have a credibility and a legacy that means they know this stuff will sell. It's the same reason any classic artist has so many greatest hits releases put out over the years. These compilations are only designed to sell over the course of a Christmas, maybe tailing along for a year, then a couple of years later they'll put out a new one that's a fresh new product for people who missed the last one. Some of them are rushed together, some of them are of dubious authenticity, but some of them get given good treatment, with remixed or remastered material, and unreleased material dug up from the archives.

Of course, if you look at older bands, the current example of note being King Crimson, they reissue their entire catalogue repeatedly. It's not so that they sell the same stuff over and over to the fans, it's so that the catalogue stays in print. In the case of King Crimson, their catalogue up to the mid 90s was remastered at the start of the millennium and put out on Virgin, who then held the rights to it. Then band-leader Robert Fripp managed to get all the rights to the entire catalogue, so those same editions were now quietly put out by his label Discipline Global Mobile, so that once the Virgin ones vanished from shelves, these versions would replace them. This year Steven Wilson from Porcupine Tree stepped in to produce 40th anniversary editions with surround sound mixes, and even new stereo mixes where Fripp was not happy with the originals. Some people (myself included) will end up with duplicate albums from these various reissues, but these are the best and most definitive versions yet, that will replace permanently the previous editions.

What I'm getting at here is they will keep releasing new compilations and boxed sets as soon as the old ones stop selling, and it's not because there's more stuff for old fans to hear, it's because there's new fans all the time, and they always want to have new stuff to promote and sit on the shelf for each new "generation" of fan. It's the same with any business. Dyson's standard vacuum cleaner has been improved with new technologies over the years, so a model you bought last year might be marginally less good than the one you could have bought this year... But if it was the same, they wouldn't be able to sell it with "The new Dyson with state of the art Supersuck Technology - nobody sucks harder than a Dyson!"
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Offline Mt. Epic  
#27 Posted : 07 November 2009 08:31:30(UTC)
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I understand it's profitable, and they want to introduce a new audience, but the artist will still be of an older sound that an older generation enjoyed. Most people prefer a more contemporary sound like pop because for some reason, people enjoy it. So most of these new compilations are going to be bought by true, die-hard fans because little interest will come from most of the music market, who are teens, that are busy dancing along to Jonas Brothers.
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Offline Gildermershina  
#28 Posted : 07 November 2009 08:35:07(UTC)
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Mt. Epic wrote:
I understand it's profitable, and they want to introduce a new audience, but the artist will still be of an older sound that an older generation enjoyed. Most people prefer a more contemporary sound like pop because for some reason, people enjoy it. So most of these new compilations are going to be bought by true, die-hard fans because little interest will come from most of the music market, who are teens, that are busy dancing along to Jonas Brothers.


The old fans already have all the music. They're not going to buy a compilation unless there's something new on it.
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Offline Mt. Epic  
#29 Posted : 07 November 2009 08:52:50(UTC)
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Gildermershina wrote:
Mt. Epic wrote:
I understand it's profitable, and they want to introduce a new audience, but the artist will still be of an older sound that an older generation enjoyed. Most people prefer a more contemporary sound like pop because for some reason, people enjoy it. So most of these new compilations are going to be bought by true, die-hard fans because little interest will come from most of the music market, who are teens, that are busy dancing along to Jonas Brothers.


The old fans already have all the music. They're not going to buy a compilation unless there's something new on it.


Which is why this album is gonna fail along with all the rest of the compilation album released after Cobain's death.
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Offline Gildermershina  
#30 Posted : 07 November 2009 08:56:47(UTC)
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In what sense fail? Sure it's not going to be a number 1, but it'll sell plenty and make a shit load of money.
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Offline Mt. Epic  
#31 Posted : 07 November 2009 09:23:56(UTC)
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Gildermershina wrote:
In what sense fail? Sure it's not going to be a number 1, but it'll sell plenty and make a shit load of money.


By fail, I mean won't sell much just like most of the other box sets.
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Offline Aj  
#32 Posted : 07 November 2009 09:39:59(UTC)
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There's a simple answer to this whole thing.

Don't buy it.
Offline Gildermershina  
#33 Posted : 07 November 2009 10:10:40(UTC)
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Mt. Epic wrote:
Gildermershina wrote:
In what sense fail? Sure it's not going to be a number 1, but it'll sell plenty and make a shit load of money.


By fail, I mean won't sell much just like most of the other box sets.


But they'll sell it at a profit, and all the songs are already in the vaults so it's cheap to put together.
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Offline Mt. Epic  
#34 Posted : 07 November 2009 10:18:52(UTC)
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Gildermershina wrote:
Mt. Epic wrote:
Gildermershina wrote:
In what sense fail? Sure it's not going to be a number 1, but it'll sell plenty and make a shit load of money.


By fail, I mean won't sell much just like most of the other box sets.


But they'll sell it at a profit, and all the songs are already in the vaults so it's cheap to put together.


It's still a profit, just nowhere close to as much as a little kid singing to two notes.
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Offline forkboy  
#35 Posted : 07 November 2009 10:22:05(UTC)
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Mt. Epic wrote:
Gildermershina wrote:
In what sense fail? Sure it's not going to be a number 1, but it'll sell plenty and make a shit load of money.


By fail, I mean won't sell much just like most of the other box sets.

You say this, but there are always new kids coming through ready to hear a band with Nirvanas rep for the first time, and then there are the completionists. People who buy live bootlegs. And then the people who were at Reading Festival back in the day where this live album was recorded and want to be reminded of it, the nostalgia effect. It'll sell, and it will sell well. Don't be under any illusions about otherwise.
Mt. Epic wrote:
It's still a profit, just nowhere close to as much as a little kid singing to two notes.

Do you seriously believe that whatever fucking compilation that it is Nirvana plan to release won't out sell whoever the fuck irrelevancy it is that you are talking about? If so, you really don't know anything about the record industry. How old are you, 13? 14? The world's bigger than your High School.

Edited by user 07 November 2009 10:24:41(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Mt. Epic  
#36 Posted : 07 November 2009 13:48:40(UTC)
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forkboy wrote:
Mt. Epic wrote:
Gildermershina wrote:
In what sense fail? Sure it's not going to be a number 1, but it'll sell plenty and make a shit load of money.


By fail, I mean won't sell much just like most of the other box sets.

You say this, but there are always new kids coming through ready to hear a band with Nirvanas rep for the first time, and then there are the completionists. People who buy live bootlegs. And then the people who were at Reading Festival back in the day where this live album was recorded and want to be reminded of it, the nostalgia effect. It'll sell, and it will sell well. Don't be under any illusions about otherwise.
Mt. Epic wrote:
It's still a profit, just nowhere close to as much as a little kid singing to two notes.

Do you seriously believe that whatever fucking compilation that it is Nirvana plan to release won't out sell whoever the fuck irrelevancy it is that you are talking about? If so, you really don't know anything about the record industry. How old are you, 13? 14? The world's bigger than your High School.


Yes I do believe Nirvana will be outsold by little kids because little kids are popular among the most popular age. Not too many adults buy music as much as teenagers, and if teenagers are buying Hannah Montana and Jonas Brothers, well then they have a more successful single/album/DVD. Plus, just because Nirvana are considered legends doesn't mean that everyone is goin' to go rush like crazy to buy their albums. It's all about what the public wants. Besides, most of their compilations were failures. Only the first box set and greatest hits album was popular and the rest was shit. Nobody bought it. What makes this album any different?
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Offline forkboy  
#37 Posted : 07 November 2009 14:29:53(UTC)
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I'll let you in on a secret in the most patronising way I can.

Adults have more disposable income than kids.

Adults buy more records than kids.

Teenagers buy more records than kids.

Adults buy more records than teenagers.

Adults have more disposable income than teenagers.

Teenagers have more disposable income than kids.

Seriously, where the fuck do you get the idea that a) teens buy more albums than young adults? b) that just because you don't know anybody that likes Nirvana suddenly means that they have less fans than Miley Cyrus? COME ON! THINK! The reason that Nirvana haven't been on top of the charts recently is because they have released exactly no new records in the last 10 years.

And yeah, please provide proof of these "failures". Thanks.
Offline Mt. Epic  
#38 Posted : 07 November 2009 14:58:11(UTC)
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First of all, when I mean kids, I mean children ages 10-18.
Second, Adults don't buy more music than teenagers do, and the singles/albums charts are proof. Also, If adults bought more music, the music industry would be full of older musicians and no child stars. As well as that, teenagers would be listening to the same music because children are easier to influence, and since more "adult friendly" music would've been mainstream, then pop music might not have existed.
Thirdly, When I mean adults, I mean like true adults. Not smartass, pot-smoking college kids. Besides, most "young adults", as you call them, buy more "grown up" pop, which is really nothing more than pop artists who are older than the teen pop stars.
Fourthly, Nirvana was a pop sound too. So are all the current artists. And one day, the current artists will become more popular than Nirvana because they impacted culture on a larger and longer scale.
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Offline Mt. Epic  
#39 Posted : 07 November 2009 15:06:15(UTC)
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Sorry if I don't reply back to your argument/s Forkboy or anyone else who is arguing with me. I gotta go to sleep now, cuz I got detention tomorrow.
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Offline forkboy  
#40 Posted : 08 November 2009 00:21:27(UTC)
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Young adults, people in the 19-30 demographic, buy considerably more music than teenagers. This is because they have student loans, or jobs, neither of which a 14 year old will have. Thus the 14 year old buys records when he gets his pocket money from mother & father, the 22 year old buys stuff when he gets paid, and as he gets paid more he is able to buy more.

Granted I am slightly more fanatical about music than Joe Average, but in my old job there I'd regularly buy somewhere between 3 & 5 albums a month. Now yes, the singles charts are the almost exclusive domain of younger folk, because a £3 single involves less saving up than a £12 album. But this discussion is going nowhere because you are too young to actually understand what we are talking about here so I'm going to just bring it to an end.
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